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42nd Div USAF Uniform with CIB


bbmilitaria
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Oops! One thing I forgot to mention..on page 216 where it describes the wartime SSI, the next paragraph also states that "Distinctive organizational insignia" (what we would call DUIs today), was permitted to be worn on the shoulder straps of the coat or jacket as well....although I've never seen one of these mix-and-match combos with a DUI on the shoulders....

 

 

Mark sends

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I'll keep an eye out for another copy..I'm pretty sure I've got a second copy that someone donated to me...I see them on a regular basis at the local antiques malls, and they're usually not very pricey...

 

Mark sends

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..."Distinctive organizational insignia" (what we would call DUIs today), was permitted to be worn on the shoulder straps of the coat or jacket as well....
...I'll keep an eye out for another copy...

This keeps getting better and better...thanks, Mark.

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Wow. Thanks for sharing that!

 

I picked up, in San Antonio, a BDU AF blouse, SSgt chevrons, that was patched up for the HQ, Texas National Guard. The weird thing (and the reason I paid 5 bucks for the blouse) was that it has the Texas Guard HQ patch worn on the left sleeve, in the manner of army wear!

 

I'd never seen that before, and this thread sort of explains it; I'm wondering if this is something that's still done?

 

(Will try and get pics up in the next day or two...)

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Hey Guys !!

 

Fun thread !! As noted there can be some strange combinations especially during transition periods. There are many combinations that look puzzling at firs but later check out. For instance, I have a beautiful Pre-WWII Army Dress blue uniform to a Colonel and smack dab middle in his ribbons is the Yang Tze Campaign ribbon...well...at first you think only USMC and Navy personnel qualified for that one. It turns out that this veteran served with the 31st Infantry, was indeed in China, and a limited number of members from that unit did qualify for the ribbon !! I have another beautiful Air Corp Ike with a Fleet Marine ribbon in his ribbon bar...I haven't research this one yet but it will be fun to do so !!

 

Keep em coming !!

 

Vic

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The practice of Air Force personnel wearing Army insignia is alive and well...usually found with people like forward air controllers and combat weather troops...in the first Gulf War, I was attached to the 72nd Signal Battalion in Northern Iraq...there was me (a TSgt at the time) and one AF Captain...I ran all the commo and he was basically the "weatherman"...we could have worn the 7th Signal Brigade patch...but I didn't feel like having another thing to sew on, plus I would have to remove it after I went back to Ramstein anyway - which brings up the point...you can only wear the patch while actually serving with the Army. Once back in an Air Force unit it has to come off..although there was a push by some to get the AF uniform board to allow permanent wear of Army patches. While in Bosnia, I had a friend who was a combat weather-person, and she wore the 1st Infantry Division patch on her BDUs.....

 

 

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I have a nice 4 pocket A.F. blouse w/ a Hawaiian Cadre patch, and C.I.B. I would post pic, but keep getting this message!

 

Upload failed. The file was larger than the available space

 

Can never figure out how to post pics on this forum!

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. . . it would be a stretch, especially from infantry (and the Rainbow Division to boot!) to USAF.

 

Not saying one way or another about this particular uniform, but in the early 1980's I met an active duty USAF lieutenant general who wore a CIB earned in World War II.

 

Bill

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VMI88 said:
Not saying one way or another about this particular uniform, but in the early 1980's I met an active duty USAF lieutenant general who wore a CIB earned in World War II.

 

Bill

 

I served in the military over 20 years, active and reserve. In my last assignment we had many members in the A.F. reserve who had earned CIBs in Vietnam or to a lessor extent in Desert Storm. They always wore them on their B.D.Us. Marine Corps doesn't allow the wearing of this award, but the A.F. does. Even my 1st Sgt. for a time had it, earned in V.N. w/ 1st Inf Div.

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louie said:
I served in the military over 20 years, active and reserve. In my last assignment we had many members in the A.F. reserve who had earned CIBs in Vietnam or to a lessor extent in Desert Storm. They always wore them on their B.D.Us. Marine Corps doesn't allow the wearing of this award, but the A.F. does. Even my 1st Sgt. for a time had it, earned in V.N. w/ 1st Inf Div.

 

 

 

I bought 90% of my uniforms from rag mills, thrift stores, and flea markets, for very little when most people looked away from American stuff for the German stuff as usual. I always liked the U.S. stuff.

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This battle has been on-going at least since the early 1970s. In 1973-74, I was in a Direct Air Support Center Squadron (712th DASC Sq). We tried to get approval to wear the patch of the corps we were supporting (III Corps), but were unable to get approval. In the late 80s, we fought the battle again (supporting XVIII Airborne Corps). The ALOs generally wore their division's patch, but got jumped on by their own hierachy if done outside of Army facilities. We felt that wearing the Army patch would integrate us into the system better and boost morale, but that didn't hold much water with the senior fighter pilots.

 

The first crack in the wall came when our wing commander told us to ignore Air Force regulations on the style and location of rank insignia and wear what the Army wore. We had been jumping around with bright/subdued/metal/cloth insignia (including a short period where they wanted us to wear leather name tags like on flight suits). Our Army counterparts got a great chuckle out of the fact that we'd show up differently uniformed every time we deployed (which was a lot).

 

From the letters in the Air Force Times, this is still a hot-button issue. So, for collectors, there should be modern USAF BDUs with legit Army patches (although only locally authorized for parts of the Tactical Air Control System), but you'll find almost nothing in the regulations to allow such wear.

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Thought I would post LOUIE's picture ..... great uniform!

post-2144-1224290978.jpg

Hawaiian Cadre SSI on a USAF Sgt. (or A1C) uniform almost defies gravity. This topic certainly is flushing out some rare birds now that we have learned that anything goes (or anything went) with respect to former Army unit SSI on 1950s USAF uniforms. So, Louie, would you please post an image of the Q.M. Specification label inside this coat so we can at least get a fix on a not-earlier-than date for the uniform shown? Thanks!

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Here in the National Geographic of 1957 airmen and soldiers watch a show by Bob Hope. Notice guy on left has 1st Cav patch, and guy next to him has last pattern Advance ETO patch! Pic was taken late 56 I think for March 57 Nat. Geo.

post-470-1224350443.jpg

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louie said:
...here's a link to the label....Seems his name was BP Nanas? 1949 dated blouse....

Thanks, Louie, for posting a very useful follow up on a very interesting uniform. A Robert (Bob?) P. Nanas enlisted in the Regular Army in New York City, October 5, 1940, for initial assignment to Hawaiian Department (link here). This might be your guy. That unofficial Hawaiian Cadre SSI is on shaky ground considering the short history of this little known unit but if Nanas were actually assigned to Hawaiian Division in 1940, which split into 24th Infantry Division and 25th Infantry Division in 1941, it would explain just about all other insignia on the uniform, to include the bronze service stars on the ribbons. If the SSI were 24th ID, or even 25th ID, instead of Hawaiian Cadre, it would be a nearly flawless combination as worn on this ca. 1950 USAF uniform. Nevertheless, thanks for your excellent contribution to this thread.

 

image.png

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Thanks, Louie, for posting a very useful follow up on a very interesting uniform. A Robert (Bob?) P. Nanas enlisted in the Regular Army in New York City, October 5, 1940, for initial assignment to Hawaiian Department (link here). This might be your guy. That unofficial Hawaiian Cadre SSI is on shaky ground considering the short history of this little known unit but if Nanas were actually assigned to Hawaiian Division in 1940, which split into 24th Infantry Division and 25th Infantry Division in 1941, it would explain just about all other insignia on the uniform, to include the bronze service stars on the ribbons. If the SSI were 24th ID, or even 25th ID, instead of Hawaiian Cadre, it would be a nearly flawless combination as worn on this ca. 1950 USAF uniform. Nevertheless, thanks for your excellent contribution to this thread.

 

 

I don't think the Air Force was up on some of this stuff. I even once saw a PT boat patch on the right sleeve of an A.F. officer's blouse, also of this era. Nothing on the left though. Believe it or not, threw it back in the pile of uniforms since at that time I was just into Marine and Para stuff. From your description, this is the guy. Not a commen last name. All of this stuff was sewn on at the right time, so maybe he just liked the looks of the Hawaiin cadre SSI that this is what he sewed on his uniform. For years I had the opputunity to go through rag houses in L.A. and for around $5 a jacket you took whatever you wanted. Many, many bizarre combos came out of these places, like my 4th Service Command, Left, 23rd right shoulder, and 2nd Mar.Div, Snake pattern on lower rt cuff! Also neat 1st Mar.Amphib., w/ a C.B.I. on the right on a Marine uniform! It makes me laugh when some criticize as fake some of the sewing on WW2 tunics. I have seen them glued, and poorly at that, and honest to God, pinned on!! Stripes and all, held w/ pins, and a ruptured duck on them!

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...I don't think the Air Force was up on some of this stuff...

That is a good point, Louie. The USAF had more important work to do than police these legacy patches worn by a relative handful of WWII vets. The USAF brass probably didn't care and natural attrition eventually solved of the "problem" for them. Most career oriented airmen undoubtedly read the signs and got with the program, adapting to the modern Air Force image that was official policy. And now it is merely a fascinating bit of militaria.

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Here in the National Geographic of 1957 airmen and soldiers watch a show by Bob Hope. Notice guy on left has 1st Cav patch, and guy next to him has last pattern Advance ETO patch! Pic was taken late 56 I think for March 57 Nat. Geo.

 

...and the 1st Cav "airman" is also wearing what appears to be a CIB.

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There had to have been a very natural cusp or interface period between USAAF and USAF of course, and no doubt not ALL Army guys were real excited about having become airmen overnight either... though I don't recall hearing very many stories about that. Judging from the razzing zoomies receive on a regular basis, the moment will not soon be forgotten either. :lol:

 

I imagine, without really "knowing", that at least some guys thought separating airplane functions from the Army would have been sort of like doing the same with tanks.

 

When I enlisted the USAF as a branch was 16 years old, and still very much (in retrospect) in the teenage stage of differentiation from Army parentage. By the time VN was in full swing, the old ties returned, or so it seems, though not without a few bumps in the road - e.g. the heated dispute about which branch would be in charge of choppers - but for me (being unable to speak for anyone else in blue OR green), by now the AF seems to have settled into a relationship not unlike that which exists between the Navy and Marines in some ways.

 

Seeing this thread is utterly fascinating... the other day I got one very similar started, having to do with the MAAG-Vietnam patch worn by airmen - which yielded a number of posts very like the ones here; albeit the wearing occurred under quite different circumstances than post-WWII.

 

I've posted both threads in a USAF links thread in the Sleeve insignia forum so they won't get lost.

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Not Air Force, but in 1972 in the MDARNG there was a MSG who wore the white-on-navy blue PT patch as a combat patch (even on his fatigues). He had been a 17-year old member of the Maryland NAVAL MILITIA BRIGADE in 1941 and was held back from an early deployment overseas due to his tender age. He was assigned as station complement to Solomons Island MD, which was a PT training site. He went overseas to ITALY in 1944 and told of making runs to support partisans in Italy and Yugoslavia. Nobody ever told him he couldn't wear the patch.

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dogfacedsoldier

I've seen my share of Americal uniforms with the 2nd Marine Guadalcanal snake on them (a battleflash), and some on other Army units as well, 25th, 43rd, and 148th Inf. (Ohio Guard). At a show in KC, I passed on an AF Ike with 11th AB, CIB, jump wings and ribbons. I should have bought it. That is a great uniform and story.

 

Jon

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I even once saw a PT boat patch on the right sleeve of an A.F. officer's blouse, also of this era. Nothing on the left though.

 

The vet could have been a WWII Army Air Corp vet who served with the Emergency Rescue Boats. I have a WWII four pocket tunic with the PT boat patch on the left sleeve with Army Air Corp collar brass that belonged to a veteran of this type of service.

 

Thanks,

Tim

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