Vpep Posted February 13, 2017 Share #1 Posted February 13, 2017 Its been a good week for me in terms of militaria. I got this last week for what I thought was a good price. I have some questions about it though. The set came with a set of HBT polyamide flying coveralls and a helmet bag marked HMM-165, which I thought was a Marine Corps helicopter unit. Unfortunately, the set is not identified in any way. What puzzles me is if this set was for a helicopter unit, why does the helmet not have a boom mic? Any insight on this would be greatly appreciated because I would like to display it at my next veterans day exhibit, and I want to make sure i describe it in the proper historical context. I hope you all enjoy the Photos. Thanks Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpep Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share #2 Posted February 13, 2017 Here is the flight suit and helmet bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northcoastaero Posted February 14, 2017 Share #3 Posted February 14, 2017 The flight helmet has been upgraded to USN/USMC APH-6C standards with the plastic ear cups and dual visor assy. (Sierra dual visor assy. with one piece rams horn plastic housing). The helmet probably started out as a Gentex APH-6A with a single visor assy. with a solid back (not open spaces) plastic housing and the foam/leather ear cups. I believe the helmet shell is Gentex because of the style of buckle on the chin strap and the type of rivet heads on the inner chrome mask receiver plates. Solid head rivets along the top and bottom (total six) of the inner mask receiver plate seem to indicate Gentex mfr. Sierra mfr. helmets seem to have a depression in these six rivets. What type of communications cable is installed in the helmet? Is there one or three holes on the lower back of the helmet shell towards the left side? If one hole, the earphone cable would be the long one with a single molded plug at the bottom. This cable was used with fixed-wing aircraft and some helicopters. There was also another cable that was used in aircraft such as the S-2/E-1/C-1, E-2, etc. that used this same single hole for retention. If three holes, the communications cable would be the short black rubber type that was used in some helicopters and patrol aircraft. Also, there was another cable assy. that used the same three holes. This cable was used with the S-3 Viking acft. and the H-60 series helicopter. You are correct that a boom microphone mount and microphone assy. would be used if flying in helicopters. Usually attached to the right side of the helmet for the era of your helmet. The contract date on the dual visor assy. appears to be 1969. The helmet in this configuration seems to be from 1969-1971 time frame. A Velcro patch for the attachment of a rescue strobe light was usually added to the right side of the visor housing beginning in 1971. Also, reflective tape usually covered part of the helmet by this time to aid in rescue. Many times the reflective tape was cut into a design to represent the squadron patch/emblem, etc. A solid painted USN/USMC helmet from this time frame could possibly have been used in a survival training swimming pool or altitude pressure chamber? Usually training squadrons that flew had orange and white reflective tape in some sort of a pattern/ design on their helmets. The helmet could also have been used in some sort of other ground training? What type of liner is inside the helmet and how many pieces is it manufactured in? Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpep Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #4 Posted February 14, 2017 This is the jack thats attached to the back of the helmet for the comms. Its not one that I'm familiar with. It came with an extra jack that had a DSA date of 69. I think the reflective tape was covered up with the yellow paint. The interior is covered up with felt, but from what I can feel, it seems like there are two pieces of styrofoam in there. There doesn't seem to be any residue from where a velcro patch would be on the visor cover. By the way, I appreciate all the information, this is great regardless of what capacity the helmet was used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpep Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted February 14, 2017 this Is the interior which is unfortunately obscured by felt, which makes me wonder if it was used in a swimming pool for survival training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northcoastaero Posted February 14, 2017 Share #6 Posted February 14, 2017 Just a few notes: -HMM-165 appears to have flown the CH-46A Sea Knight during the 1968-1971 time frame. -Prior to 1969-71, it appears the squadron was using modified versions of the APH-5 and APH-6 series helmets. -1969 seems to be the year that the SPH-3B helicopter helmet started to replace the APH helmets in the squadron. -The APH helmets and early SPH-3B helmets seem to use the longer cable with the molded single plug. -The shorter rubber cable like the one on your helmet seems to be introduced with the SPH-3B in 1971 for the squadron. -The short rubber cable was probably introduced in 1967. 1968 contract date on your helmet cable. Used with some helicopters and patrol aircraft. Eventually replaced the long cable with the molded single plug. -There was a rubber extension/adaptor cable that attached to the short rubber cable and ended with the molded single plug. -I have never seen a felt modified liner before. There were so many unofficial modifications that I guess this was possible also. I knew a collector who had flight helmets with liners modified by the USN from cut up rubber wet suit pieces for use in the survival training swimming pool. -Could you provide an image of the right side of the helmet showing the ear cup adjustment disc and chin strap screw area to see if there is wear on the helmet where a microphone mount could have been? -The helmet bag is a Parachute Rigger (PR) made item. -The flight suit is a fire resistant USN/USMC/Army issue CS/FRP-1 or CS/FRP-4. Your suit has a modified pouch for the pilot's survival knife with sheath. Check out the following links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMM-165 http://www.hmm165whiteknights.com/index.html Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TLeo Posted February 14, 2017 Share #7 Posted February 14, 2017 That looks like tape strips under the paint job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxerdogi Posted February 14, 2017 Share #8 Posted February 14, 2017 The mic could have been attached to an oxygen mask clip. This was a common thing, and would have made removal easier for storing. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpep Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #9 Posted February 14, 2017 Here are pictures of the sides where a boom mic would be placed. I don't see any indication such as indentations from over tightening screws, that there was ever one there. I didn't know they had clip on pics. I will have to look for a photo of one, since I've never seen that before. This unit definitely has an interesting history, especially with involvement of the evacuation of Siagon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northcoastaero Posted February 14, 2017 Share #10 Posted February 14, 2017 I agree that there seems to be no evidence of a boom microphone bracket being installed. A butterfly clip oxygen mask receiver modified with a boom microphone could be a possibility. Notice the olive drab green paint left on the rubber communications cable on the back of the helmet. Maybe the helmet was OD green at a previous time? I have also noticed that some USN patrol squadrons flying the P-3 Orion acft. do not use a boom microphone on their helmets-just the communications cable installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72psb Posted February 14, 2017 Share #11 Posted February 14, 2017 I believe that a boom mic was placed on a modified butterfly mount and attached where the oxygen mask would attach. I recall seeing photos of this. northcoastaero you beat me to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpep Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted February 14, 2017 The cord is actually black with remnants of yellow over spray on it which appears green in the photos. The pilot didn't do a very good job of taping up the helmet and actually got yellow paint on the clear visor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northcoastaero Posted February 14, 2017 Share #13 Posted February 14, 2017 Are there any more tape designs underneath the yellow paint other than the stripes on the back of the helmet shell? I still say the helmet in this configuration was for some sort of ground training. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpep Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #14 Posted February 14, 2017 The helmet has only 3 stripes on it, one straight down the back and one on each side on a diagonal. The lack of care taken in painting the helmet makes me agree with you that it probably was rehabbed for training purposes. It was probably then taken home as a souvenir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxerdogi Posted February 15, 2017 Share #15 Posted February 15, 2017 Just an addition....here is an example of what others and myself were alluding to. Mics modified to the mask clips. This one is on a "Christmas Tree" bayonet. I have had them on Butterfly clips, straight bayonets, and "J" bayonets. Guys liked to remove them so as not to bend them up while stowing their helmets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxerdogi Posted February 15, 2017 Share #16 Posted February 15, 2017 Other side: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpep Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share #17 Posted February 15, 2017 thats great, thanks for the picture. Now I have an idea of what to keep my eye open for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72psb Posted February 15, 2017 Share #18 Posted February 15, 2017 Flighthelmet.com has the set up you need.Look under boom mic parts.$125. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vpep Posted February 15, 2017 Author Share #19 Posted February 15, 2017 I will do that. I'm familiar with the site, I haven't checked it out you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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