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Black Tip MKII Grenade Spoon


Dirt Detective

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This question is off topic but what is the significance of the letter "A" on the spoon top?

The collector does not know and that was one of his questions which went unanswered from the " experts" on BOCN.

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Pic of a fuze box. It is becoming clear fuzes were modified, old fuze stocks used up, a lot of mix and match, overstamped, inked marked, painted, repainted, etc....no hard and fast rule.

I forgot to add that many spoons found have been painted, or parts of them have over spray on them. TM makes mention spoons were not painted. However, with so many pre 43 yellow painted grenades that were repainted to OD in the field it makes sense that those spoons were painted OD along with the grenade when being repainted. I have one that has the black tip, is bare grey metal with half the spoon length wise covered in OD overspray, obviously when a yellow one was repainted OD in the field.More latter. post-180924-0-32284100-1540408485.png

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Dirt Detective

Sure use any pic you need..let me know if you need any more ...you are correct there is no black tip on spoon...this is original WWII painted OD spoon.

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Sure use any pic you need..let me know if you need any more ...you are correct there is no black tip on spoon...this is original WWII painted OD spoon.

Thanks. I posted the question and pics on the BOCN website, we shall see how long before the experts can reply....My prediction,some one outside of the state's will know, most grenade questions have been answered by French collectors, one in particular has dug hundreds of them.
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Dirt Detective

All the OD painted M10A2 spoons with the black A ink stamp on top are F.L.I. spoons, not sure who that manufacturer is?? I have not see any original M10A2 spoon's with the black painted mod mark on the tip.

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Dirt Detective

Thought this would be a good place to add these pics of an original WWII smoke grenade the M200A1 has been re stamped M203

post-2677-0-66380400-1541648049.jpg

post-2677-0-14564600-1541648063.jpg

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In this topic it was requested for someone with an unmodified M10A3 grenade fuze to post images of it. Here are images of such a fuze from my collection that I hope you will find interesting. The spoon does have the black paint at the end, but as you can see some has chipped off over the years.

 

Bob

post-299-0-45829000-1541863127_thumb.jpg

post-299-0-73931400-1541863138_thumb.jpg

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Now I am confused here. My fuze is stamped M10A3, but has a spoon with the black paint on it showing it was "modified". I propose that the black paint does not mean a "modified" fuze specifically, but just gives a quick visual verification of a fuze with the newer delay time range. Fuzes prior to the M10A3 would have been modified and the spoon painted then, while the M10A3 fuze spoon would have been painted during the manufacture process, because no modification was necessary. Comments welcome on this. Bob

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  • 1 year later...

Now I am confused here. My fuze is stamped M10A3, but has a spoon with the black paint on it showing it was "modified". I propose that the black paint does not mean a "modified" fuze specifically, but just gives a quick visual verification of a fuze with the newer delay time range. Fuzes prior to the M10A3 would have been modified and the spoon painted then, while the M10A3 fuze spoon would have been painted during the manufacture process, because no modification was necessary. Comments welcome on this. Bob

Reviving this thread as the modified black spoon question keeps coming up. To answer your question, the manufactured M10A3 fuze assembly was modified at least one time by adding a half moon pin to prevent spoon over travel if squeezed to hard. I will post a picture an add it to this thread.
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post-180924-0-88888200-1580090726_thumb.jpeg

 

Notice the half moon pin contacting the spoon. This was a modification to the M10A3 fuze after it was fielded. I do not have the TM or reference, but do remember it was introduced when in the field it was found the spoon could be over squeezed in certain situations and disconnect the front of the spoon from the fuze body. It is embossed M10A3 and has the black painted spoon. My understanding is this " half moon" pin mod came out before going to the TNT filled grenade with the M6 detonator fuze. Both TNT/M6 fuzed grenades I have incorporate this half moon pin.

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Do keep in mind so many changes in color, fuze burn time, sealing gasket, flat pin- half moon pin, M200 useage, hammer assy, filler, primer sealing disk, etc. all occurred in a very short time period due to expediency and little can be found in TMs, more in obscure Ordnance directives.

 

One example is the TM stating " spoons to be unpainted", well, it is obvious that was not adhered to due to expediency and field repaints.

 

Also keep in mind fuzes have been inadvertently switched, swapped, or mixed by collectors over time. Collectors, take some time and see how many half moon pins you have opposed to the smooth ended pins, and if you really are bored pull the pins, let the spoon fly and closely examine and compare the hammer spring assemblies for small differences. I do know the primer sealing disk material and sealant was modified more than once.

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Dirt Detective

For a spoon / safety lever to be reused or reloaded....that would mean one of two things.

 

1. Fuzes would be shipped out without a spoon in place. I don't think that would happen.

 

2. Spoon's would be policed up at the range and sent back to the ordnance depot for reuse. Dirty, some bent and needing cleaning before reuse..using fuel to get them back to depot..seems like more time and trouble than to just use a clean new spoon. In wartime the whole idea in producing ordnance is fewer steps, saves time and money and gets the item out faster. In my opinion I dont think that would happen either.

 

The TM picture that Rob posted years ago shows a grenade spoon tip being painted black and meaning modified..it does not say reused or reloaded..there have been pictures with grenades in combat that look to have black tip painted spoons.. on the other hand NOTHING in print that I know of says it means reloaded/reused. I would love to hear others opinion.

 

So much to learn about this cool ordnance item..

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Dirt Detective

Do keep in mind so many changes in color, fuze burn time, sealing gasket, flat pin- half moon pin, M200 useage, hammer assy, filler, primer sealing disk, etc. all occurred in a very short time period due to expediency and little can be found in TMs, more in obscure Ordnance directives.

 

 

 

Good points...here are a couple pic's from a newspaper post from Jan 1944 covering the new "De-Banged" ..Grenade Primer from Winchester..another Mod.

post-2677-0-62932600-1580263878_thumb.jpg

post-2677-0-85195100-1580263887_thumb.jpg

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Good points...here are a couple pic's from a newspaper post from Jan 1944 covering the new "De-Banged" ..Grenade Primer from Winchester..another Mod.

attachicon.gif 1primer.jpg

attachicon.gif 1primera.jpg

Wow, DD, great detective work. Amazing so little can be found in TM's and manufacturers specs about all the modifications that occurred. Strange how all the info could have all disappeared without a trace. There are still even manufacturers marks that can not be identified, some examples, I believe correctly, are foreign made. Many countries copied the MKII design, Korea, Iran, Greece, Denmark to name a few.

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