Persian Gulf Command Posted October 23, 2018 Share #26 Posted October 23, 2018 This question is off topic but what is the significance of the letter "A" on the spoon top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted October 23, 2018 Share #27 Posted October 23, 2018 This question is off topic but what is the significance of the letter "A" on the spoon top? The collector does not know and that was one of his questions which went unanswered from the " experts" on BOCN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted October 24, 2018 Share #28 Posted October 24, 2018 Pic of a fuze box. It is becoming clear fuzes were modified, old fuze stocks used up, a lot of mix and match, overstamped, inked marked, painted, repainted, etc....no hard and fast rule. I forgot to add that many spoons found have been painted, or parts of them have over spray on them. TM makes mention spoons were not painted. However, with so many pre 43 yellow painted grenades that were repainted to OD in the field it makes sense that those spoons were painted OD along with the grenade when being repainted. I have one that has the black tip, is bare grey metal with half the spoon length wise covered in OD overspray, obviously when a yellow one was repainted OD in the field.More latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted October 26, 2018 Author Share #29 Posted October 26, 2018 This question is off topic but what is the significance of the letter "A" on the spoon top? Some pics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted October 27, 2018 Share #30 Posted October 27, 2018 Some pics spoons 3-2 002.jpg spoons 3-2 005.jpg DD, thank you for the additional pics. I noticed the " A" ink marked spoons are M10A2's, not modified to A3. I assume they do not have the tips painted black. Correct? Can I use your picture to post on another site? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share #31 Posted October 29, 2018 Sure use any pic you need..let me know if you need any more ...you are correct there is no black tip on spoon...this is original WWII painted OD spoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted October 29, 2018 Share #32 Posted October 29, 2018 Sure use any pic you need..let me know if you need any more ...you are correct there is no black tip on spoon...this is original WWII painted OD spoon.Thanks. I posted the question and pics on the BOCN website, we shall see how long before the experts can reply....My prediction,some one outside of the state's will know, most grenade questions have been answered by French collectors, one in particular has dug hundreds of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share #33 Posted November 3, 2018 Here is the other half of the above photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted November 3, 2018 Author Share #34 Posted November 3, 2018 All the OD painted M10A2 spoons with the black A ink stamp on top are F.L.I. spoons, not sure who that manufacturer is?? I have not see any original M10A2 spoon's with the black painted mod mark on the tip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted November 8, 2018 Author Share #35 Posted November 8, 2018 Thought this would be a good place to add these pics of an original WWII smoke grenade the M200A1 has been re stamped M203 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambob Posted November 10, 2018 Share #36 Posted November 10, 2018 In this topic it was requested for someone with an unmodified M10A3 grenade fuze to post images of it. Here are images of such a fuze from my collection that I hope you will find interesting. The spoon does have the black paint at the end, but as you can see some has chipped off over the years. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rambob Posted November 10, 2018 Share #37 Posted November 10, 2018 Now I am confused here. My fuze is stamped M10A3, but has a spoon with the black paint on it showing it was "modified". I propose that the black paint does not mean a "modified" fuze specifically, but just gives a quick visual verification of a fuze with the newer delay time range. Fuzes prior to the M10A3 would have been modified and the spoon painted then, while the M10A3 fuze spoon would have been painted during the manufacture process, because no modification was necessary. Comments welcome on this. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted January 27, 2020 Share #38 Posted January 27, 2020 Now I am confused here. My fuze is stamped M10A3, but has a spoon with the black paint on it showing it was "modified". I propose that the black paint does not mean a "modified" fuze specifically, but just gives a quick visual verification of a fuze with the newer delay time range. Fuzes prior to the M10A3 would have been modified and the spoon painted then, while the M10A3 fuze spoon would have been painted during the manufacture process, because no modification was necessary. Comments welcome on this. BobReviving this thread as the modified black spoon question keeps coming up. To answer your question, the manufactured M10A3 fuze assembly was modified at least one time by adding a half moon pin to prevent spoon over travel if squeezed to hard. I will post a picture an add it to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted January 27, 2020 Share #39 Posted January 27, 2020 Notice the half moon pin contacting the spoon. This was a modification to the M10A3 fuze after it was fielded. I do not have the TM or reference, but do remember it was introduced when in the field it was found the spoon could be over squeezed in certain situations and disconnect the front of the spoon from the fuze body. It is embossed M10A3 and has the black painted spoon. My understanding is this " half moon" pin mod came out before going to the TNT filled grenade with the M6 detonator fuze. Both TNT/M6 fuzed grenades I have incorporate this half moon pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted January 27, 2020 Share #40 Posted January 27, 2020 Do keep in mind so many changes in color, fuze burn time, sealing gasket, flat pin- half moon pin, M200 useage, hammer assy, filler, primer sealing disk, etc. all occurred in a very short time period due to expediency and little can be found in TMs, more in obscure Ordnance directives. One example is the TM stating " spoons to be unpainted", well, it is obvious that was not adhered to due to expediency and field repaints. Also keep in mind fuzes have been inadvertently switched, swapped, or mixed by collectors over time. Collectors, take some time and see how many half moon pins you have opposed to the smooth ended pins, and if you really are bored pull the pins, let the spoon fly and closely examine and compare the hammer spring assemblies for small differences. I do know the primer sealing disk material and sealant was modified more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted January 27, 2020 Share #41 Posted January 27, 2020 so mine is correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted January 27, 2020 Share #42 Posted January 27, 2020 so mine is correctJudging by your FS post pictures, yours is authentic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share #43 Posted January 27, 2020 so mine is correct In my opinion YES.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted January 27, 2020 Share #44 Posted January 27, 2020 I figured as much------------- thanks guys----------- great info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share #45 Posted January 27, 2020 For a spoon / safety lever to be reused or reloaded....that would mean one of two things. 1. Fuzes would be shipped out without a spoon in place. I don't think that would happen. 2. Spoon's would be policed up at the range and sent back to the ordnance depot for reuse. Dirty, some bent and needing cleaning before reuse..using fuel to get them back to depot..seems like more time and trouble than to just use a clean new spoon. In wartime the whole idea in producing ordnance is fewer steps, saves time and money and gets the item out faster. In my opinion I dont think that would happen either. The TM picture that Rob posted years ago shows a grenade spoon tip being painted black and meaning modified..it does not say reused or reloaded..there have been pictures with grenades in combat that look to have black tip painted spoons.. on the other hand NOTHING in print that I know of says it means reloaded/reused. I would love to hear others opinion. So much to learn about this cool ordnance item.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share #46 Posted January 27, 2020 Here is the link from the first post..that is dated 1944 in Italy that shows the black tip spoon. https://www.ww2online.org/image/weapons-used-us-soldier-force-surrender-german-soldier-armed-machine-pistol-italy-27-november Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share #47 Posted January 29, 2020 Do keep in mind so many changes in color, fuze burn time, sealing gasket, flat pin- half moon pin, M200 useage, hammer assy, filler, primer sealing disk, etc. all occurred in a very short time period due to expediency and little can be found in TMs, more in obscure Ordnance directives. Good points...here are a couple pic's from a newspaper post from Jan 1944 covering the new "De-Banged" ..Grenade Primer from Winchester..another Mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted January 29, 2020 Share #48 Posted January 29, 2020 Good points...here are a couple pic's from a newspaper post from Jan 1944 covering the new "De-Banged" ..Grenade Primer from Winchester..another Mod. 1primer.jpg 1primera.jpg Wow, DD, great detective work. Amazing so little can be found in TM's and manufacturers specs about all the modifications that occurred. Strange how all the info could have all disappeared without a trace. There are still even manufacturers marks that can not be identified, some examples, I believe correctly, are foreign made. Many countries copied the MKII design, Korea, Iran, Greece, Denmark to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
917601 Posted January 29, 2020 Share #49 Posted January 29, 2020 Grenade markings list. This may have been posted before, but needs to be in this section. http://tgrm.foxed.ca/US%20marking.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costa Posted January 29, 2020 Share #50 Posted January 29, 2020 that is an extensive list. seen it before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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