jmar Posted February 10, 2017 Share #1 Posted February 10, 2017 Hello to everyone! I hope you all have been well. It's been a while since I've done a thread and haven't frantically been trying to sell pieces to meet my monthly bills. Fortunately things turned around last month and it's smooth seas and fairs winds for now. So with this change in the weather I'd like to take a moment and put before you a bit of a poser that has been plaguing me for years. The USN Good Conduct Medal with blank top bar. A few years back I had posted two examples from my collection, one un-named (no big deal) and one named (unusual). The named example was met with a lot of skepticism and head scratching on both my part and others in our field. So it sat as an oddity in my USN GCM collection...until a few weeks ago. Then another surfaced...many years later, and I manged to snag it. Now the game is afoot, date range is within a year of my first example and they are both engraved in the same hand. No evidence of tampering on either piece. I've included pics of the un-named medal as well. Forgive me if I've missed a thread explaining this in my 5 year-off and -on hiatus, but I would appreciate hearing from anyone with any information on this unusual type. Does anyone else have a named example? If so please add it here, I'd love to see it! My best to you all! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #2 Posted February 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted February 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #4 Posted February 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted February 10, 2017 Share #5 Posted February 10, 2017 Joe You are gone for a little while and always come back with a bang! I don't know about the bars but just wanted to mention these are beautiful! ...kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted February 10, 2017 Hey Kat!! Great to hear from you old friend! I hope you've been well and it's great to see that you stopped by my thread! Hopefully we'll get this mystery cleared up, it's been bugging me for years. Take care, my best to you always, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted February 12, 2017 Share #7 Posted February 12, 2017 Joe-- nice to see something from your amazing collection after a long while. Those are curiosities. Perhaps just oddities that lasted for a year or so, like the metal bar suspension for a year in the teens that had a "U" instead of a ring for the suspension ring to link. Adam posted pictures of one of those from his collection on a thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted February 12, 2017 Joe-- nice to see something from your amazing collection after a long while. Those are curiosities. Perhaps just oddities that lasted for a year or so, like the metal bar suspension for a year in the teens that had a "U" instead of a ring for the suspension ring to link. Adam posted pictures of one of those from his collection on a thread. Thank you very much for stopping by and for your kind words! I agree, they are oddities that seem locked into a particular (short) time period. I remember hearing somewhere that this style top bar variants were made for displays, but these two named pieces seem to contradict that assessment. I am really hoping that some other forum members might have an example to post!! Or data about their production and issue. There's so much of our history out there that is teetering on being lost forever, this forum is a place where we push back and preserve our military heritage! My best to you always! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted February 12, 2017 Share #9 Posted February 12, 2017 Thank you very much for stopping by and for your kind words! I agree, they are oddities that seem locked into a particular (short) time period. I remember hearing somewhere that this style top bar variants were made for displays, but these two named pieces seem to contradict that assessment. I am really hoping that some other forum members might have an example to post!! Or data about their production and issue. There's so much of our history out there that is teetering on being lost forever, this forum is a place where we push back and preserve our military heritage! My best to you always! Joe Joe, it's good to see you. Hope you'll get back to posting as you used to, if your time permits. I'd say the best bet for someone having something definitive on this is our friend, Adam, when he sees it. All the best to you, AB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaigun Shosa Posted February 14, 2017 Share #10 Posted February 14, 2017 I found this picture in the National Geographic December 1919. And as you can, the Navy Good Conduct Medal does have a top bar. Unless it was just placed there for symmetry with the Marine Corps good conduct medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #11 Posted February 14, 2017 Joe, it's good to see you. Hope you'll get back to posting as you used to, if your time permits. I'd say the best bet for someone having something definitive on this is our friend, Adam, when he sees it. All the best to you, AB. You are right AB, if Adam sees this post he might well have some input on these oddities! Thank you again! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 14, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted February 14, 2017 I found this picture in the National Geographic December 1919. And as you can, the Navy Good Conduct Medal does have a top bar. Unless it was just placed there for symmetry with the Marine Corps good conduct medal? Hello KS! Thank you very much for stopping by and adding the scan from the classic Nat Geo article. I have that issue as well, but never thought about referring to it, that is quite interesting and perhaps a piece of this puzzle that will help in unraveling this mystery. I really appreciate you taking the time to post the page and jogging my memory about the USN GCM being depicted with a top bar. Let's see what else unfolds from other members! My best wishes to you, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaigun Shosa Posted February 15, 2017 Share #13 Posted February 15, 2017 Thanks Joe, However, I have never seen an example of this top bar being engraved. Maybe someone has one in their collection? Regards, Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCR79 Posted February 15, 2017 Share #14 Posted February 15, 2017 Engraved Top Bar Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 16, 2017 Author Share #15 Posted February 16, 2017 Hello Bill! THANK YOU for adding such a beautiful example. That is a VERY interesting piece, pre-dating my examples and engraved in a different hand. Thank you again, I know there must be more examples out there...come on gang, we know you've got 'em....lets see 'em! Best wishes! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaigun Shosa Posted February 17, 2017 Share #16 Posted February 17, 2017 Bill's example got me thinking, what we really need is the details within Naval Regs for the 1919 time period for the good conduct medal. It's unusual to see the back engraved with the initial info on the awardee and the top bar engraved with "1st enlistment"?!? Do you think the top bar was to indicate what enlistment the award was given instead of a command or year? Was this a regulation that was only valid for a very short time, then canceled? (perhaps why we see a lot of blank bars) Was the idea to only have one bar with either "# enlistment" / "Command" / "year" and changed out every time another award was given? Hoping for Adam R to chime in on this or other Navy good conduct gurus out there. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerialbridge Posted February 17, 2017 Share #17 Posted February 17, 2017 Bill's example got me thinking, what we really need is the details within Naval Regs for the 1919 time period for the good conduct medal. It's unusual to see the back engraved with the initial info on the awardee and the top bar engraved with "1st enlistment"?!? Do you think the top bar was to indicate what enlistment the award was given instead of a command or year? Was this a regulation that was only valid for a very short time, then canceled? (perhaps why we see a lot of blank bars) Was the idea to only have one bar with either "# enlistment" / "Command" / "year" and changed out every time another award was given? Hoping for Adam R to chime in on this or other Navy good conduct gurus out there. Jim I'm guessing that Bill's interesting example, since its planchet refers to a USMC installation, was to a corpsman who spent most of his service attached to Marine units-- maybe why the top bar and the unusual "1st Enlistment" engraving? . Looks good to me, just really unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Nier Posted February 22, 2017 Share #18 Posted February 22, 2017 Joe: Your NGC to Lukins is shown on page 79 of the 2nd edition of Brian Cannon's superb book on the NGC. Brian commented that its components were struck with Mint dies. He suspects that this variety was assembled by BB&B and/or Joseph Mayer in the 1930s, for commercial sale to veterans or as authorized replacements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharfmaster Posted February 22, 2017 Share #19 Posted February 22, 2017 The L.U.K.I.N.S. GCM has a post-WW2 type 2nd Award clasp so we assume it was assembled after 1946. Wharf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaigun Shosa Posted February 23, 2017 Share #20 Posted February 23, 2017 Does anybody know if the Fidelity zeal Obedience book by Cannon is still available? I didn't see it on the OMSA web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share #21 Posted February 24, 2017 Hello gang! I take a few days off and wow! I'm so glad to see the replies here. This has been nagging me for years and the Forum didn't let me down! So with all tallied up I am assuming that the 2 examples I have are "put togethers" not officially issued, but merely genuine, engraved planchets (since we USN GCM collectors all recognize the hand), put onto unofficial drapes. Either by a veteran whose medal was damaged, or with intent to deceive by making something look "special". I didn't know that Brian's 2nd edition was published, he had wanted some pics of a few pieces I had, the Lukins included. I had hi-res and silhouetted pics ready for him, but couldn't send vi the Forum. I admit I totally forgot to try and get in touch with him due to my consecutive illness in 2016 (no lie I was sick about 6 months of last year, even lost my hearing for over 3 weeks). I hope he reads this and we can have another lunch SOON! What a great guy. Is his new book available, and if so where, I would love to add it to my reference collection. SO the case is finally CLOSED, not official issue, and you all have my sincerest thanks for clearing up this little mystery. Best wishes and again thank you all who took the time to read and comment! See you soon! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam R Posted February 24, 2017 Share #22 Posted February 24, 2017 A bit late in chiming in but unfortunately I have nothing in my archive that would help explain these bars. I also suspect they were unofficial although the parts look like they were produced by the US Mint. I only have one example in my collection; a blank bar on a blank medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmar Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share #23 Posted February 24, 2017 Hello Adam, Thank you for stopping by and replying, it is much appreciated. I think that the blank bar and blank medal are the genuine article, I got my "blank" example from George Harris. All others, seem to be put together either by the vets themselves or by those with intent to deceive. I'm not going to fuss with the two named examples I have, but rather keep them and tag them as unofficial oddities. Many thanks! Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluejacket Posted February 26, 2017 Share #24 Posted February 26, 2017 Just hit on this topic after being off line for a while. If anyone is interested in a copy of my new edition of the US Navy Good Conduct Medal book, I'm offering them in the "Books" sale section at a discount for USMF members. Check it out. Always nice to see a discussion of the GCM's. Bluejacket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMcollector Posted October 1, 2018 Share #25 Posted October 1, 2018 Here is an example I have been eye balling all week and ended up winning in auction. First named top bar example I have seen. What does everyone think? Engraving looks period to me, recognized hand? Thanks for looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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