Kadet Posted February 14, 2017 Share #26 Posted February 14, 2017 Thanks, I like it too. Were it not removed from something, I probably wouldn't have bid though. The story about the Ike jacket posted above piqued my interest. I would also like to compare a red and pink version side by side, and compare both to some other pocket patches to check for similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 14, 2017 Share #27 Posted February 14, 2017 To expound a bit, what I really want to compare is the red 517th patch against an original 506th patch. They appear to have striking similarities, and both of these units served at Toccoa. The other interesting comparison is between the 460th and 462nd PFAB patches. The 460th served alongside the 517th during the war, so one would think their patches may have been similar. However, the 460th was formed at Camp Mackall, and so was the 462nd. Despite one of these units serving in the ETO and the other going to the Pacific, their patches share almost identical features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBCannon Posted February 14, 2017 Share #28 Posted February 14, 2017 Well, I finally found the photo. It is sooo bad, I almost wish I had not. Anyway, here it is. The date stamp which I cropped out was 5/23/90. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBCannon Posted February 14, 2017 Share #29 Posted February 14, 2017 Kadet; I am glad you won the patch; I think you got a really good deal. For what it is worth, the "red patch" I own (identical to the one that you are expecting) has also been used. Of the handful I have seen, I do not recall an unused one. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted February 14, 2017 Share #30 Posted February 14, 2017 Jim,thanks for showing the photo. Find it funny that the person that bad mouthed the patch was the winner,and now says he wants to sell for 1250;just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 14, 2017 Share #31 Posted February 14, 2017 Jim, thanks..very nice addition to the thread Mort: relax. If you read my words, I in no way shape or form "bad mouthed" this patch (in either thread). I simply stated that I was unsure which, if any, US made 517th patch was actually made and potentially worn during the war. I don't think I was alone in this confusion. I started my original thread because there seemed to be controversy about them, and I was hoping other members could add to our collective knowledge. JBCannon did that IMO, and had he not posted in this thread, I may not have bid on the patch in question. As I said, I also wanted to acquire one of these to compare it with other known originals. The patch I won will not actually be for sale at the SOS...I intend to keep it in my collection. I was simply trying to make a point about your valuation of these, which I feel is quite high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted February 14, 2017 Share #32 Posted February 14, 2017 Look at the guy, second from the left. This is a photo I let Bender use in his new Airborne Heroes In Our Midst volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted February 14, 2017 Share #33 Posted February 14, 2017 If you can enlarge the photo in #32 above, you can see the trooper is wearing the red one. I know I would classify this as "wartime". We pubbed it in The Trading Post prior to inclusion in Bender's new book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 14, 2017 Share #34 Posted February 14, 2017 I just got this book in the mail and hadn't looked through it yet. Here is the photo enlarged. Clearly one of the red, US made versions...I think this photo probably ends the discussion. I'll bet there is a 13th ABN patch on his other shoulder, and the red 517th is his "combat patch". I plan to do side by side scans, but I believe the wartime 506th, 501st and 517th pocket patches share almost identical characteristics, i.e. stitching style, the color and texture of the blue twill background and thread color. All three of these units were at Toccoa, so the patches may have been made in the area. The one anomaly is the merrowed edge on the 506th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted February 15, 2017 Share #35 Posted February 15, 2017 Andy would the red show up darker in a photo versus the pink being lighter color in a black and white picture?(just curious) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted February 15, 2017 Share #36 Posted February 15, 2017 Great! Terrific photo to demonstrate what I believed from the start. Thanks so much. When at the SOS you will see a near mint version at my table that I have had for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 15, 2017 Share #37 Posted February 15, 2017 Ron, I think there are several ways to tell it is a red one. The red does appear very dark on the numbers and bottom arc. The flames are lighter than the arc though. A pink would be all one color/tone. Also the red ones have the underside of the canopy done in blue thread and this is also visible in the pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted February 15, 2017 Share #38 Posted February 15, 2017 Ron, I think there are several ways to tell it is a red one. The red does appear very dark on the numbers and bottom arc. The flames are lighter than the arc though. A pink would be all one color/tone. Also the red ones have the underside of the canopy done in blue thread and this is also visible in the pic Thanks Andy I was thinking the same just wanted to hear your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 15, 2017 Share #39 Posted February 15, 2017 I think this picture was taken at Fort Bragg, NC after the 13th Airborne Division returned home in August 1945. The 13th Airborne Division wasn't deactivated until early 1946. It is possible that the red patches are contemporaries of the 501 and 506 patches I mentioned earlier, but weren't widely issued for some reason. There is also a mid 1945 - early 1946 window when the other versions may have appeared at Fort Bragg. As is still the case there, Fayetteville had a cottage industry of tailors and insignia makers to support the base. The pink ones are mysterious. I like my example, and feel it is a WWII era patch that shares many traits with other airborne pocket patches. The base material of the pink ones is very different from the heavy twill of the red though. It is more of a poplin material, and actually looks to my eye like the backing of a 507 patch. The red and pink 517th patches were clearly made by different makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 15, 2017 Share #40 Posted February 15, 2017 The more I think about this picture, the more these 517th patch variations make sense. The 517th never liked its association with the 13th Airborne Division. In fact, there was a minor scandal when the 13th unit history was published. It basically gave credit for the 517th's considerable combat achievements to the 13th, which never saw combat. As Jim mentioned, the 517th men didn't like to wear the 13th SSI. This problem may have been solved at the end of the war when the practice of "combat patches" was adopted. Some of the men may have had the original red patches. The local economy in Fayetteville may have filled the demand for those that didn't. Fort Bragg was filled with veterans of the various airborne divisions after the war, and I am sure the proud veterans of the 517th didn't want to walk around with 13th patches on. The matter is complicated further because "Boots" definitely offered them for sale after the war. The "Boots" patches may have been created from the ground up, or they may have been old stock from the '45/'46 Fort Bragg era. It would be great to find a picture of the "Boots" 517th patch in a catalog! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 15, 2017 Share #41 Posted February 15, 2017 As promised...the patch was clearly sewn to something and there are remnants of green thread around the perimeter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted February 15, 2017 Share #42 Posted February 15, 2017 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted February 15, 2017 Share #43 Posted February 15, 2017 Very nice piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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