Jump to content

WWII Marine M1 with T1 chin strap.


RichRaider
 Share

Recommended Posts

Good evening,

 

Recently I purchased a really nice Marine M1 and it just arrived. It is such a great helmet with lots of character! Unfortunately, it has no provenance. I am also coming to another conclusion; the M1 is a cryptic beast! Everything on the helmet screams WORLD WAR II if your glass is half full. It might also be from as late as Vietnam if you’re in need of a refill.

 

I have done a lot of research am not really in need of textbook answers. I am looking for your opinion and just some experience based knowledge.

 

-The cover is a Third Pattern and does not have an EGA on the jungle or beach side.

-The Beach side has the saw tooth stitching.

-The jungle side has the box stitching.

Note: I did take the cover off the helmet. I know that many forum members believe that it takes away value. I just don’t feel the same way about reduced value.

 

-The helmet is a McCord with a heat stamp of 306A.

-FS with FB.

-Cork paint looks original (note: Shadow transfer of residue from tent peg strap).

 

This is where the helmet takes a turn. The chin straps on the helmet have the T1 connector and are OD3 (I think). I understand that this was designed/adopted in Sept. 1944 and just over a year later the war ended, but all the information i have found online says it was rarely adopted. The hardware on the chinstrap looks to be blacked brass with the addition of the T1. This is my focus of confusion. What does this mean?

 

The liner is in great shape. It is a IMP and in tip top shape. You can see that is has all the hallmarks of a late war liner with the exception of one; a green hardware leather chinstrap (original). I know that this could have been added later, but it is in really bad condition and I think it was original.

 

The helmet is not a marriage. You can see from the photos that the tent peg strap left distinctive marks on the steal from years of contact. The HBT cover has perfect rust transfer from the inside of the steel pot. The liner fits snug as a bug and has moisture transfer on the crown that matches the inside crown of the steel. You be the judge, but I posted this to get a little SME opinion and share my new addition.

 

Thanks!

 

-Rich

post-164442-0-58930800-1484872411_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The straps are the correct OD-3 shade for a FB, and the (cast?) raised-bar buckle is early too. The T-1 hardware could be added without modifying the existing chinstrap or buckle, so it could have been retrofitted with those parts during the period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Navybean, what makes you say that? Any reason?

Only that I have had other WW2 era helmets with this modification but where post war used.

Verified by vet use when purchased, or in the last case was a nice SB helmet with khaki straps but the T1 modification and a Vietnam era helmet cover. Came from a helicopter crew member who served in Vietnam. Wish I still had the helmet.

Could be WW2 era modification but my bet is post WW2 use but I will say I do not know everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only that I have had other WW2 era helmets with this modification but where post war used.

Verified by vet use when purchased, or in the last case was a nice SB helmet with khaki straps but the T1 modification and a Vietnam era helmet cover. Came from a helicopter crew member who served in Vietnam. Wish I still had the helmet.

Could be WW2 era modification but my bet is post WW2 use but I will say I do not know everything.

Thanks for your feedback. I am bias towards WWII and appreciate the objective look. Posts like yours are what I was looking for. Still,I think it can comfortably fall in the WWI-Korea war time frame.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The liner has been rewebbed with bandoleer sling webbing.

Urig,

I'm not really sure how to tell it's been rewebbed. Can you get me a link to more info? Anyone else see the same problem? That would be a disappointment and give me a desire to get my money back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Urig,

I'm not really sure how to tell it's been rewebbed. Can you get me a link to more info? Anyone else see the same problem? That would be a disappointment and give me a desire to get my money back.

The liner was rewebbed with bandoleer sling webbing. It's about 1/4" wider than the 7/8" webbing used by the factory. As far as I can tell this was a WW2 and Korean War era method of fixing blown out liner suspension. If you think about it, bandoleers were probably discarded by the piles after emptying them of their ammo and reused by riggers/textile repair units for all kinds of repairs. I would not discount the liner simply because it was repaired at some point and since it's not a new repro web kit IMO it doesn't hurt the value.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good morning,

Update on the liner: I sent photos of the liner to J. Murrary ( J. Murrary Inc. 1944) and asked him to tell me if it was re-webbed. I am glad that I talked to him before contacting the buyer. He said "100% legit IMP liner...you don't see this often...but the crossovers are wider...this is not common at all." He said " It is very difficult to find these in good condition. Don't mess with it!"

 

I appreciate the look from everyone and would love any more information or opinions if you have them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good morning,

Update on the liner: I sent photos of the liner to J. Murrary ( J. Murrary Inc. 1944) and asked him to tell me if it was re-webbed. I am glad that I talked to him before contacting the buyer. He said "100% legit IMP liner...you don't see this often...but the crossovers are wider...this is not common at all." He said " It is very difficult to find these in good condition. Don't mess with it!"

 

I appreciate the look from everyone and would love any more information or opinions if you have them.

I used to own a liner with the same odd webbing, I believe mine was a Westinghouse though. Didn't really know what it was but it seemed original, only seen one other like it.

 

Nice helmet!

 

-Steven

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This very well could be a post war addition. On the other hand, nothing takes it out of the category of World War II. I've been looking at all of the guides to determining date of production and I haven't really found anything that solidifies it as post war. To be honest, it marks all of the areas that fit it into WW2 more than anything else IMO. Really the only thing that would definitively remove it is the statement quoted below.

 

"If any post-1944 changes are present in any part of the helmet, then it cannot be considered a true WWII helmet. Depending on the post-war change a part may be simply changed for an original period correct piece or more drastic measures taken such as repainting to original specifications" http://www.militarytrader.com/military-trader-news/wwii-era-m1-helmets-a-beginners-guide

 

If hundreds of thousands of helmets were being produced over approximately 2 1/2years, it is very possible these were in service and at the front.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...