Kadet Posted January 9, 2017 Share #1 Posted January 9, 2017 I have been assembling a WWII pocket patch display to go with my other items. Using friends, books and the info on USMF and other forums, I've been able to assemble a nice collection of originals. The 517th patches are a mystery to me though. The couple threads that exist on them are somewhat contradictory regarding what is considered WWII and what is considered post war. In fact, aside from the very rare version made in France, I'm not entirely confident ANY of them were actually wartime produced, which would make acquiring one of less interest to me. The thing that puzzles me though is that several variants (specifically the pink ones) seem to be made exactly like those of other units that are definitely considered wartime. What are the thoughts on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted January 9, 2017 Share #2 Posted January 9, 2017 Here is a link to a great discussion about the patch and when it was designed,made and worn: http://www.517prct.org/documents/patch_history/patch_history.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 9, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted January 9, 2017 Thanks!...I missed that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted January 10, 2017 Share #4 Posted January 10, 2017 What I think maybe a consenus opinion is that the pink version was available in 1946 by Boots which I contend is just one of many manufactures of patches and like the other patches made for sale were also available during the war is not an unreasonable thought. I was told by one of the foremost collectors years ago that the RED version is the first US made version and the article mentioned above seems to bear this belief out. The ORANGE version I believe is also a WW2 version. Summarize this way; the pink is the most common,next the orange and than the red as rarest except for theater made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillock Posted January 10, 2017 Share #5 Posted January 10, 2017 Here is a link to a great discussion about the patch and when it was designed,made and worn: http://www.517prct.org/documents/patch_history/patch_history.htm Thanks patchcollector appreciate you passing this on. Phill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted January 10, 2017 What I think maybe a consenus opinion is that the pink version was available in 1946 by Boots which I contend is just one of many manufactures of patches and like the other patches made for sale were also available during the war is not an unreasonable thought. I was told by one of the foremost collectors years ago that the RED version is the first US made version and the article mentioned above seems to bear this belief out. The ORANGE version I believe is also a WW2 version. Summarize this way; the pink is the most common,next the orange and than the red as rarest except for theater made. Thanks! I think it safe to assume that "Boots" didn't actually make the patches they offered for sale, but contracted to have them made. Perhaps with the same companies that produced similar patches during the war. There are two very similar pink designs that I have noted, one of which has a a more coarse, green mesh backing. Both variants share some striking construction similarities with pocket patches that are considered wartime, especially on the reverse. I don't own a 517th but have collected photos from various places. When I get a moment I will post them in the thread for discussion, and perhaps compare some of the variants to other wartime pocket patches... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share #7 Posted January 10, 2017 Here is pink 517th #1 with the more coarse green mesh backing. As Mort stated, the pink versions are the most common type, so it would be nice to nail down exactly what they are! For the record, I think both of these are "original" meaning not reproductions made to deceive, although they may be the 1946 era 'boots" versions. I also think these are variations made by the same manufacturer, and that the maker also produced patches during the war. Note my 513th patch posted below.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted January 10, 2017 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share #9 Posted January 10, 2017 Pink # 2 with the more standard white mesh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share #10 Posted January 10, 2017 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share #11 Posted January 10, 2017 Now...here is a 513th patch that I believe most would consider wartime. Look at the similarities on the reverse, especially the way the shroud lines and outlining is executed ("black dots" produced by the machine stitching method). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted January 10, 2017 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 10, 2017 Author Share #13 Posted January 10, 2017 This is a photo lifted from another forum thread. It shows the "red", "pink" and "orange" versions. Does anyone have good front/back photos or scans of the red and orange that they could post? To me, the orange versions look more modern than the red and pink ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted January 11, 2017 Share #14 Posted January 11, 2017 My scanner is giving me a problem but will send back and front of red and orange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted January 13, 2017 Share #15 Posted January 13, 2017 Have resolved the problem with the scanner. Here for the first time that I am aware you will see the red and the orange versions side by side front and back. Would like to hear comments and especially if anyone has the red in their collection. Have never seen one for sale ever and wonder what price they would command? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share #16 Posted January 13, 2017 Great stuff, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortaydc60 Posted January 13, 2017 Share #17 Posted January 13, 2017 That's it! No comments. I guess the members here do not know what they don't know. I just posted something that has never been seen of some very important patches that fill in a void to our knowledge base,and nothing in response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted January 13, 2017 Share #18 Posted January 13, 2017 That's it! No comments. I guess the members here do not know what they don't know. I just posted something that has never been seen of some very important patches that fill in a void to our knowledge base,and nothing in response. Happens to me all the time. Can't always expect a response. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadet Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share #19 Posted January 13, 2017 Thanks for posting. My feeling is that the pink versions look the most like other wartime pocket patches. For example, compare the reverse of a pink one to an original 506 patch. I feel that the orange ones are probably post war and just don't know about the red ones. Perhaps the size differences hold some significance? The question is which one is the "boots" version? I personally think the orange ones are better candidates....but I am no expert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted January 13, 2017 Share #20 Posted January 13, 2017 Mort, was TDY and it was a long day flying yesterday. Did not see your post until now, and needed a break from editing.... I have the red one in my collection, along with documentation from the vet who previously owned it. His recollection in 1984 was that he got it in France in '44-'45 and he was not particularly enamored of it because he was with the 517th only a short period of time. No, it's not for sale, either. And, FWIT - many years ago I had access to the Disney Archives. I could not write anything down nor take photos. The original 517th patch was a Disney creation, but with an eagle on it, similar to the one on the round 188th PIR patch. The eagle was changed into a buzzard, probably by the GI who is attributed to have designed the 517th patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefmil Posted January 14, 2017 Share #21 Posted January 14, 2017 Dave, Can you post a picture of your attributed 517th. Is it US made like the one in this thread? How did he explain acquiring it overseas? (How did it get to France?) Thanks, Jefmil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torch03 Posted January 14, 2017 Share #22 Posted January 14, 2017 I'm with you Andy. I have always liked/thought the Pink version was the wartime US made pocket patch for the 517th. I have had two Pink versions that were in named 517th groups. I also believe the Orange version is post war. I have seen the red version, had one offered to me, didn't buy it, never owned one. And to be honest I would rather have the Pink version over the Red/Orange version. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefmil Posted January 14, 2017 Share #23 Posted January 14, 2017 Before we end this discussion of the 517th SSI. I have viewed in a few guru collections as well as in the Keller's airborne book an italian made bullion 517th patch. Wool shield with airborne across the top. bullion wings on each side of descending canopy with small red shield at bottom with 517 embroidered in the red shield. I have no problems with this being an authentic theatre-made bullion 517th patch. But why this design? What is it origin? Why is this not a buzzard design? Especially since we have italian made chain stitched buzzard patches from Richard Spencer when the 517th was in Italy. Can anyone elaborate. Why are there no boots versions of the this shoulder patch? Jefmil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doyler Posted January 14, 2017 Share #24 Posted January 14, 2017 Thats what Im wondering where are the Boots versions as they were for sale and I have seen the old adds where they were are for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tredhed2 Posted January 14, 2017 Share #25 Posted January 14, 2017 Dave, Can you post a picture of your attributed 517th. Is it US made like the one in this thread? How did he explain acquiring it overseas? (How did it get to France?) Thanks, Jefmil A) looks just like those already posted No explanation as to exactly how he acquired it, just "in France, winter of '44-'45 C) appears to me to be US made, but am not an airborne guru ask me about the Constab or armor triangles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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