blondeoake Posted January 5, 2017 Share #1 Posted January 5, 2017 Hello , I'm new here but I've been collecting for a long time. I'm trying to authenticate some patches from my collecton and would appreciate some feedback on these two patches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUBUSMC Posted January 5, 2017 Share #2 Posted January 5, 2017 Well the 1st MAC Engineer looks original. (A bigger picture would help to ensure it is not poly thread on the back) But I assume it is a aviation engineers that is missing the wings. I have seen the smaller version without the wings, but I don't remember seeing the larger version without. As far as the FMF PAC Unassigned, I am not real sure of the story that I have heard on these. The base patch looks good from your picture (again, bigger pic would help), but the back thread on the EGA looks very different from the back thread on the rest of the patch, making me think it was added to it. The bigger issue though, is that if this patch is suppose to be a WWII variant, then you would expect a WWII EGA to be sewn on. This EGA with the single banner was not approved by the Marine Corps until I think the late 50's. I could be wrong about the date, but definitely well after the Marine Corps stopped wearing shoulder patches. I have never seen a WWII variant of this patch that I knew was original. Now that does not mean that there is not one, just means I have not seen one. If someone on the forum has one, perhaps they will post it. I have one that was clearly made in the 50's that was made as a novelty, and perhaps that is where the identification came from. Anyway, I hope that helps some. Semper Fi - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeoake Posted January 7, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted January 7, 2017 Neither are poly, both flame test like cotton and black light is non conclusive . The edge weave is in line with all my other patches of that period. The FMF patch is in a book I have but the engineer patch is not but one would think if they made one in twill then why no embroidered one too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeoake Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share #4 Posted January 23, 2017 Here is the only image of the fmf patch from the book "United States Military Patch Guide " by J.L. Pete Morgan . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeoake Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted January 23, 2017 sorry about the quality of the images .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeoake Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share #6 Posted January 23, 2017 I also posted pictures showing similar manufacturing techniques in both the fmf and another period patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUBUSMC Posted January 24, 2017 Share #7 Posted January 24, 2017 Yeah, I am not disagreeing that it is in books and exists, I'm just not convinced that the patch existed during WWII. The book you show is a relatively new book. I can't remember the first book I saw this patch in, but it was definitely well after WWII. I still stand by my comment concerning the banner above the Marine Corps emblem. I checked and the single banner was introduced in 1955 so this variant could not have been used by a WWII Marine and certainly not approved by the Marine Corps. I would love to hear from a few of the more seasoned sellers to find out how many of these they have seen for sale and when they may have first seen them in the collectors market. My personal thoughts are that it is perhaps a fantasy patch or a patch that was made for collectors. But I am open minded to think that perhaps there is an article or members that have seen it in earlier documents that show it's actual use. But, regardless, a WWII variant would have a different banner or no banner at all. Semper Fi - Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeoake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted January 24, 2017 I don't think that it is ww2 patch and I never said it was . It's is a different shade of red from all the other fmf patches I have in my collection . I have also had a poly reproduction of this patch. why fake a fake? . I'm thinking patch king or a px patch or a salesman sample like the 704 btn raiders patch or kidney second division patch. I would just like to see another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted January 24, 2017 Share #9 Posted January 24, 2017 The Morgan book is a really poor reference book with tons of fantasy and reunion patches in it. It is the worst reference book ever for new collectors or for anybody else who is searching for legitimate patches. The PAC patch is obviously doctored by the addition of the EGA on it. If you can, you should return it. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted January 25, 2017 Share #10 Posted January 25, 2017 I never got around to writing an article on the unassigned patch. I have 5 photos of fronts/backs of this insignia. One is a plausible patch but is on wool and is without the banner. As stated, the banner dates it to 1955 and USMC stopped wearing patches around 1947. Some patch dealers still insist that they have seen vintage ones a long time ago but no one has really pulled one out of their collection to show. I'll post the photos in the coming week in the USMC section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondeoake Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share #11 Posted January 26, 2017 Thanks for the reply, I'm looking forard to seeing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocsfollowme Posted January 28, 2017 Share #12 Posted January 28, 2017 started a thread on the unassigned. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/283561-the-fmf-pac-unassigned-patch/?p=2280913 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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