Jump to content

WWI tank officer uniform, good or bad


TreasureHunter
 Share

Recommended Posts

First I'd look at the inside left sleeve to see if there are any showdows of the patch being added or it has been there for awhile...the ribbon doesn't show the age of the jacket. It seems to me the patches are taster too the moths and seem to get eaten first. Not condemning the jacket. Is the placement of the offices devices too close to the front edge of the collar. Still may be a good one....there are some great WW1 tunic experts here. Keep your fingers crossed. Good luck!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can see on the collar where other insignia were pinned or the ones on there now were in a different location. The Tank Corps insignia look too small to me (shirt or cap size?).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hope I made the right choice purchasing this uniform, thoughts?

 

 

 

All depends what you paid for it. Without credible provenance, it's the sum value of the insignia and coat. The Tank branch insignia would be the main value, but being "shirt size" makes the value much lower than the full collar size.

Some things about the coat give me the sense it was put together. Besides the shirt size branch insignia, I'm not sure the patch is good (those with a wool background always worry me) and it doesn't strike me as an "officer quality" patch even if real. Also strange he has two wounds but not stars on the ribbon (the ribbon should reflect having qualified for some engagement clasps).

 

If I was pulling this out of an attic and it had provenance, I'd buy it (as anything is possible with insignia on uniforms), but wouldn't buy from a dealer or Ebay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TreasureHunter

I paid $200 from Ebay and I think I jumped on it to not loose it instead of researching it. The price also made me think it was to good a deal to be true. Thanks for the education and input, it is priceless to have such a great reference.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
TreasureHunter

Got this uniform in hand today with the dig tag. Also found his photo on Ancestry but do not have an account to look at it further, any help with that would be great. Thoughts on this uniform with the new information? Thoughts on the tag?

 

Thanks

Bill

 

post-123772-0-87328100-1484001399_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

world war I nerd

Treasure Hunter, I don't know if they're legit or fake, but something about the ID tag makes it look (to me) as if it's been recently stamped ... overall the tag looks too clean and the aging ls a bit uniform.

 

Send a PM to forum member Jagjetta as he specializes in collecting AEF Tank Corps militaria. He's also done a huge amount of research into the personnel that served with the Tank Corps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Strange one. As a rule, officers were not issued serial numbers during World War I. The serial number on the tag is in the range issued to the Southeastern Department (posts like Camp Forrest, Camp Greenleaf, Camp Johnston, etc.). It is possible that someone modified an original WWI tag to add provenance to the uniform. There is a WWI draft registration card for a Edwin John Gruber, age 26, from St. Paul, Minnesota. The Minnesota state archives has very detailed bonus files for its WWI veterans. You could request his file and see if anything matches up.

 

Serial numbers were often assigned in blocks to different units in camp (so members of a unit frequently received serial numbers in the same sequential range). Here is the guy who received 752,455. The number was issued at Camp Greenleaf, which was a training camp for the medical corps.

 

FREITAG. FREDINAND G.

752,455, White
28 Mortson St.,
Hartford, Conn.
Enl RA Ft. Slocum, NY, Dec 5/17. Br
Meriden, Conn. 25 6/12 yrs. MD
Cp Greenleaf Ga to Dec 8/18; Gen
Hosp 10 to disch. Corp Mch 15/18;
Sgt May 5/18; Sgt Icl July 20/18.
Hon disch June 11/19.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TreasureHunter

I agree the tag look wierd as does the cord.

 

Is it steel or aluminum?

 

 

It is aluminum and very light, thanks for all the help with this group. This came from an estate in Minn. so the info on Ancestry matches that part. Thanks for all the great info everyone.

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

 

 

It is aluminum and very light, thanks for all the help with this group. This came from an estate in Minn. so the info on Ancestry matches that part. Thanks for all the great info everyone.

 

Bill

Bill,

 

Any chance you still have the pieces? They're actually my Great Grandfather's. Is the tunic from the collection as well? I'm trying to pull as much as I can together from Edwin's collection on the anniversary of the AEF.

 

It would be fantastic if you were willing to sell them. I did an image search of Edwin this last week because I'm putting together a commemoration of WW1 veterans this Spring and Summer, and couldn't believe it when I saw the image of the tunic and dog tags.

 

If there's anything we could work out certainly let me know.

 

Best,

 

Dan McCall

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BILL THE PATCH

On the dog tag the b in Gruber is backwards, is this often encountered with ww1 dog tags.? Just my observation

 

Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill,

 

Any chance you still have the pieces? They're actually my Great Grandfather's. Is the tunic from the collection as well? I'm trying to pull as much as I can together from Edwin's collection on the anniversary of the AEF.

 

It would be fantastic if you were willing to sell them. I did an image search of Edwin this last week because I'm putting together a commemoration of WW1 veterans this Spring and Summer, and couldn't believe it when I saw the image of the tunic and dog tags.

 

If there's anything we could work out certainly let me know.

 

Best,

 

Dan McCall

 

Dan:

What info do you have on Gruber? This name has not turned up in my AEF Tank Corps roster project, but it is far from complete! I would like to add his name and unit, if you have that info.

 

Thanks!

JAG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow what a cool thing to trip across! Your great grandfathers uniform and tag!

Tell me about it. I figured I'd never see them. Edwin ended up having a pretty large collection of militaria and things like political buttons and so forth from what I understand. I'm not sure how or when his collection went to market. Much of it is gone now. I'm guessing that it may have many moons ago. Fortunately, some items of his, like correspondence with other officers in the Tank Corps are still in the family. It appears that they kept in touch, even through the second WW, when for instance, General Patton sent word back to Edwin after checking on my grandfather's wellbeing in the 369th Fighter Squadron while in France. They were both equestrians, so seemed to have bonded as cavalry officers. The General wrote how Edwin wouldn't believe the number of dead horses they had been coming across.

He lived most of his life in St Paul, like most of my family, and worked at the St Paul Stock Yards after returning. By Grandfather did as well on returning from Europe. After he retired Great Grandma Emma and Edwin moved out to the town of Rosemount, Minnesota. I only ever met Emma as a very small boy when she came to visit us at my childhood home in Sun Prairie, Wisconsin. Edwin

 

As I've been checking around I also found out that my uncle has a beautiful hand-drawn portrait of him in uniform that must have been done in France. My GGF actually ended up bringing a bride home, my GGM Emma. I wonder if one of her sisters did the portrait. I'll post if I can get a shot of it from my Uncle Paul.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm still not sure that this is even legit....

 

*the dogtag is very odd.

 

*the overseas stripes and wound stripes are completely different...also odd...

 

*so far, there is no evidence of a period ID in the jacket....

 

*not 100% sold on the patch, without having it in hand...

 

That being said...was it worth a roll of the dice for the price you quoted? Yes...!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Dan:

What info do you have on Gruber? This name has not turned up in my AEF Tank Corps roster project, but it is far from complete! I would like to add his name and unit, if you have that info.

 

Thanks!

JAG

 

Not sure yet about the unit and everything. I believe that he served as a Captain and was in the Tank Corps. I don't know if he had a field promotion to Captain after getting there, or was Captain when he shipped out to be honest. I'm in contact with my uncles to get all the details right now. Or at least whatever details they have. I'll be sure to pass it along once I do. It would be great to have him added to the project.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Besides what Mike Wiley said does anyone else notice the blue thread under and around the tank corps patch. I believe this is what the old guys would call a hump job! Seems someone took what might have been a killer uniform and saw dollar signs with the tank stuff. Just my two cents Paul

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe this is what the old guys would call a hump job!

 

 

"old guys?" I thought I was still a "wonder kid!!" :)

 

Okay, despite the deflated ego, I have a direct question for TreasureHunter:

"is there any indication of Gruber's name inscribed anywhere on the tunic? Name, initials in period ink?

 

 

Gruber was a real guy--commanded Company A, 328th Tank Bn and was later on the Camp Merritt Detachment, 304th Tank Brigade HQ. I haven't been able to find his serial number, however.

 

The first red flag (besides the Tank Corps SSI being poorly sewn over an area where another patch had once been) are the two wound chevrons. The 328th Tank Bn. saw no combat. This, combined with all the other state anomalies, doesn't bode well for this group.

 

With that established, unless TreasureHunter can point us to some sort of definitive connection, I am disinclined to wave the magic wand of authenticity over this uniform group. BUT, I have been pleasantly surprised to verify pretty crude tunics as legit in the past. In my opinion, t is too soon to throw it out with the bath water. Your investment in it isn't that much. My advice: Tuck it away and continue to research.

Treat em rough.
JAG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He does have a Minnesota service questionnaire on file, I've made a note to take a look at his at some point this summer.

 

He may have a photo in the county history, I'll take a look when I'm home this evening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He does have a Minnesota service questionnaire on file, I've made a note to take a look at his at some point this summer.

 

He may have a photo in the county history, I'll take a look when I'm home this evening.

 

THANKS so much, Austin! I am glad we followed the same research path :dry: . I had noticed he was a Minnesotan and the next step would be the questionnaires. I am not sure when I will get to the His Soc to check it out.

 

I am learning a lot about Gruber--but I am still not so sure this was his uniform!

 

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Gruber was a real guy--commanded Company A, 328th Tank Bn and was later on the Camp Merritt Detachment, 304th Tank Brigade HQ. I haven't been able to find his serial number, however.

 

 

That's a great help! Thank you, Jagjetta!

 

Where did you find the details? I'd love to dig in more.

 

As for the triangle patch on the uniform, the story sounds pretty funny, actually. Evidently, Second Lieutenant Will G. Robinson and his roommate designed them the night Patton challenged the officers to come up with something fitting. The next morning Patton saw the design of the "Power triangle" and loved them. He gave Robinson $100 bill and sent him into town at Langres to get as many patches made as possible. He bought the felt in three colors and had 300 made at a hat and cap shop.

The story comes from THE AMERICAN EXPEDITIONARY FORCES TANK CORPS IN WORLD WAR I: FROM CREATION TO COMBAT by Captain (P) Dale E. Wilson. (p.49)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...