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Fake: M2 of Lt. Joseph Shelton 505th PIR - jkash


jkash23686
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A few days ago there was a bunch of comments calling the helmet in question fake on his instagram. I checked it today and they were all deleted. I found that pretty unusual

You are right! So he has an internet connection in Africa.

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Nobody in this day and age, especially one who owns a business goes a whole month without internet access or checking voicemail, calls, email, or texts, etc... even those at Mt. Everest base camp get connected to outside world. He knows exactly what's been going on.

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Dirt Detective

 

 

That's interesting as I read that but how can it be verified and be interesting to see the email

 

As I commented before the name painted in the Shelton helmet sure looks like the type of painting method/style seen of fake named helmets done in Europe.

 

I agree and it would also be interesting to hear from Chris.

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+1

 

On Friday we went out for Chinese. My fortune was "a liar is not believed even though he is telling the truth". I think this basic concept applies to Jamie's helmets as well. A lot of his helmets will be condemned as fakes, wether or not they actually are.

This is not a new phenomenon.Sadly its part of any collecting field.Good items deemed bad and bad items deemed good.You see it in the German collecting field constantly. Once its deemed fake (especially on the internet)no matter what proof you have offered once its deemed bad, suspect , fake etc its always tainted.

With German items you show and ask 10 people the item and get 10 different answers.

 

I have a friend and others who will ask me if some item is real.Im no expert and tell them I can give you an opinion and take it for what its worth.I also tell them I view all german items anymore as fake even items I have gotten from vets as at some point I have had the same experiance as a lot of people and had the item called fake just because Im the owner.I ask why the item is fake and if they can tell me or have a real one to compare.They dont have one or never handled one but reply "the Germans never done that"I just move on as I know where I got the item from and its good enough for me.I have avoided many of the pit falls of collecting German as I typically dont buy it at shows.I didnt chase the high end or exotic items.Many things came in groups or from a family member of a vet or an estate.If it didnt set right with me I walked away.My logic was they made more than one and theres more fish in the pond.Some items I purchased or traded for with trusted older collectors I knew growing up.Yes, it was work to find and cultivate a collection and gain knowledge and there were and always will be disappointments but its part of the learning curve.

I have known vets who had bought stuff post war and it was not a good item.It happens alot.

Just saying people are going to either believe or not believe something is right or wrong no matter what.Having solid information or provenance helps but in the end a person really just has his name and reputation to stand on and back him up but many sacrifice that for gain or instant fame which is short lived.

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GettysburgMuseumOfHistory

This is the timeline that I have been provided. I am presenting it for informational purposes only I will not comment further about this now or later:

__________________________

On or about January of 2015, Tom Kibler was offered a collection from Bill Brooks. Bill Brooks lives in Maryland. Mr. Brooks had Cpl. Jay Barr's ID's reinforced M42 jump set (jacket and pants). Additionally, he had Jack Agnew's items and a couple of helmets. He bought the Barr set and the Agnew stuff from Chris Anderson of the Military Trader magazine and the Shelton helmet was part of this collection. Tom Kibler knew Erik Dorr and his connection with Agnew. Erik Dorr bought the balance of the items that Tom Kibler wasn’t keeping.

 

Brooks provided the following about the Shelton helmet when it was purchased: "The helmet was directly from a vet estate from the grandson and I still have the email and acquired in the US. It came from 1SGT Rueben R. Summerfold ( ASN# 20204431) of BTRY-B 186FA 1st Infantry Division. He picked the helmet up during the battle of the Bulge in '44 and took it home. The helmet itself belonged to 1st Lt. Joseph R. Shelton (ASN# 0-26781) of B-Co 505th/82nd. The helmet is still named (both liner and shell) and still has the 1st Lt stripe on both the liner and the steel pot".

 

At no time did this helmet ever come from or through Holland as some have wrongly alluded to. Tom Kibler owned that helmet for a grand total of about 3 days. Erik Dorr owned it and eventually listed it on his site. A former employee of the original vet "Shelton", saw the listing and claimed to be a relative and caused issues for Erik Dorr. It was discovered that she wanted Erik Dorr to give her the helmet so she could sell it for $$. When she was confronted with pending criminal action, she dropped the deal and Erik Dorr’s attorney found and spoke with the Shelton family. Erik Dorr held onto the helmet, for a year, wondering if the Shelton family would ever want to see it. When they never contacted him, he set the idea aside. Erik Dorr saw a helmet on Jamie Kashetta’s site and did some sort of trade/sale. Jamie Kashetta ended up with the Shelton helmet, as it was originally posted in this thread and as it was originally sold to Erik.

 

Then (times are approximate), several months after Jamie Kashetta’s original post, Shelton’s family contacted Erik Dorr AND Jamie Kashetta. The family told Erik Dorr that they had made a post on some forum about the helmet. It really was Shelton's son making the post, not Jamie.

 

Here's where the problem arises. Jamie Kashetta(as far as is known) told the family that the helmet had been sold back and forth from collectors in Europe, including Holland. This may be where the confusion came in that it had originally come out of Holland however, this was not the case.

_________________________

 

The above information I understand to be true. I reached out to Chris Anderson and one other collector who reportedly owned the helmet. This was the day I made my final post. I want to put to rest the misinformation that Anderson owned this helmet. I asked him about the helmet before I let him know what was happening and he did not know about this thread. He did however confirm he owned the Jack Agnew items and sold those items (not the Shelton helmet) to Brooks. I said if I find any new relevant information I would share it. I just do not want Anderson to be subjected to unjustified scrutiny because he never owned the Shelton helmet. thank you- Erik Dorr Gettysburg Museum of History

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The above information I understand to be true. I reached out to Chris Anderson and one other collector who reportedly owned the helmet. This was the day I made my final post. I want to put to rest the misinformation that Anderson owned this helmet. I asked him about the helmet before I let him know what was happening and he did not know about this thread. He did however confirm he owned the Jack Agnew items and sold those items (not the Shelton helmet) to Brooks. I said if I find any new relevant information I would share it. I just do not want Anderson to be subjected to unjustified scrutiny because he never owned the Shelton helmet. thank you- Erik Dorr Gettysburg Museum of History

Thanks for the updated information Erik!

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Dirt Detective

The above information I understand to be true. I reached out to Chris Anderson and one other collector who reportedly owned the helmet. This was the day I made my final post. I want to put to rest the misinformation that Anderson owned this helmet. I asked him about the helmet before I let him know what was happening and he did not know about this thread. He did however confirm he owned the Jack Agnew items and sold those items (not the Shelton helmet) to Brooks. I said if I find any new relevant information I would share it. I just do not want Anderson to be subjected to unjustified scrutiny because he never owned the Shelton helmet. thank you- Erik Dorr Gettysburg Museum of History

 

This means if Anderson did not have anything to do with the Shelton helmet..I guess that means Brooks is the first known owner??

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Patchcollector

That is the way I read it.It appears that Mr.Brooks bought the Shelton helmet from the grandson of 1SGT Rueben R. Summerfold,who had brought it home from the battlefield in 1944.

 

If that is correct then I believe that it would establish this chain of custody;

Shelton-Summerfold-Brooks-Kibler-Dorr-Kashetta

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A few good helmets slipped under your nose during the time you guys spent on this topic.

 

Lol

 

Hey there, you did not introduce yourself in the New member's section. Please make a post there and introduce yourself.

 

Welcome to the USMF.

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A few good helmets slipped under your nose during the time you guys spent on this topic.

 

Lol

 

and maybe some bad ones too. And many more would get stuck with bad ones and the hobby would be cesspool without topics like this and people spending time on it. Are you one of those guys who advocates against buying books and doing research when that money and time could be better spent accumulating trinkets?

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Okay, enough dragging names in this post without verifying the information...stop the guessing and do your homework...

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This means if Anderson did not have anything to do with the Shelton helmet..I guess that means Brooks is the first known owner??

 

 

What does this say for the email that was to be from the vets grandson pertaining to ownership of the Shelton helmet?

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A few good helmets slipped under your nose during the time you guys spent on this topic.

 

Lol

 

And this is helping us, How? You've been a member for a whole week and now and here you are dispensing clever wisdom?

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And this is helping us, How? You've been a member for a whole week and now and here you are dispensing clever wisdom?

+1

 

let see what we all missed.

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USMC-RECON0321

And this is helping us, How? You've been a member for a whole week and now and here you are dispensing clever wisdom?

 

Most likely someone who's been banned from USMF would be my guess.

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Burning Hazard

A large number of european collectors who made and still do make legitimate barn, attic or dug finds and who were careless enough to post their findings here were also subjected to this individual's mercyless comments ( and of a lot of others, whose DNA was not tested in the process anyways ).Consequently, a HUGE lot of them have now chosen not to show anything anymore on this forum... and to stay as far AWAY from it as they possibly can.

 

A few good helmets slipped under your nose during the time you guys spent on this topic.

Lol

 

 

You sound oddly bitter for some reason....

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USMC-RECON0321

That is the way I read it.It appears that Mr.Brooks bought the Shelton helmet from the grandson of 1SGT Rueben R. Summerfold,who had brought it home from the battlefield in 1944.

 

If that is correct then I believe that it would establish this chain of custody;

Shelton-Summerfold-Brooks-Kibler-Dorr-Kashetta

 

 

 

 

What does this say for the email that was to be from the vets grandson pertaining to ownership of the Shelton helmet?

 

 

I would say the chain of custody at this point is more accurately like this;

 

- Shelton helmet claimed to have been lost at the battle of the bulge.

 

-Supposedly picked up and brought home by a 1st Infantry Div. soldier- (1st Sgt Reuben R. Summerfield who has yet to be a confirmed veteran of the 1st ID?)

 

-Given to an unknown Grandson at this point?

 

- To Brooks

 

- To Kibler

 

- To Dorr

 

- To Kashetta

 

The only Reuben R. Summerfold I've been able to find was born in 1903. He was a WWI Vet, got out and later again served for 16 years leading up to and through WWII. I found a July 22nd 1946 newspaper article stating he was the Chief Recruiting Sgt in Bridgeport Conn. from October 1945 to May 1946 and the 16 years prior were served with 160th Infantry Regiment, (40th Div) the 186 Field Artillery Regiment of the NY National Guard. But the article doesn't mention any overseas service during WWII.

 

It should also be noted that Sgt Summerfold would've been a 41-42 year old Sgt 1944 - 1945. Not saying it can't be done, but unusual as an Infantry Sgt.

 

This post isn't to point fingers at anyone, just to clarify there isn't a "confirmed" chain of custody at this point. Just claims of a chain of custody up to Brooks taking possession of the helmet. If not confirmed or able to be confirmed, that portion of the chain of custody is just a story (Maybe true, maybe not)?? Doesn't mean it's false, just means its not confirmed. And many items we all have are attached to "un-confimred story's or verbal chain of custody's given. But if you're counting on a chain of custody to "Confirm" an item, you need to confirm the chain of custody given.

 

Wow,,, I fell like I just wrote "how much wood can a woodchuck chuck..." LOL

 

Troy

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I got a brief email from jkash this morning. Since it was a private mail I won't quote the contents. However, he confirms being on a nature reserve in Africa with a connection bad enough that he is barely able to retrieve email and unable to do much else.

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I got a brief email from jkash this morning. Since it was a private mail I won't quote the contents. However, he confirms being on a nature reserve in Africa with a connection bad enough that he is barely able to retrieve email and unable to do much else.

 

I have got several messages into him but, have yet to receive any direct response. I assume he is aware of what is happening here?

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Patchcollector

 

 

 

 

I would say the chain of custody at this point is more accurately like this;

 

- Shelton helmet claimed to have been lost at the battle of the bulge.

 

-Supposedly picked up and brought home by a 1st Infantry Div. soldier- (1st Sgt Reuben R. Summerfield who has yet to be a confirmed veteran of the 1st ID?)

 

-Given to an unknown Grandson at this point?

 

- To Brooks

 

- To Kibler

 

- To Dorr

 

- To Kashetta

 

The only Reuben R. Summerfold I've been able to find was born in 1903. He was a WWI Vet, got out and later again served for 16 years leading up to and through WWII. I found a July 22nd 1946 newspaper article stating he was the Chief Recruiting Sgt in Bridgeport Conn. from October 1945 to May 1946 and the 16 years prior were served with 160th Infantry Regiment, (40th Div) the 186 Field Artillery Regiment of the NY National Guard. But the article doesn't mention any overseas service during WWII.

 

It should also be noted that Sgt Summerfold would've been a 41-42 year old Sgt 1944 - 1945. Not saying it can't be done, but unusual as an Infantry Sgt.

 

This post isn't to point fingers at anyone, just to clarify there isn't a "confirmed" chain of custody at this point. Just claims of a chain of custody up to Brooks taking possession of the helmet. If not confirmed or able to be confirmed, that portion of the chain of custody is just a story (Maybe true, maybe not)?? Doesn't mean it's false, just means its not confirmed. And many items we all have are attached to "un-confimred story's or verbal chain of custody's given. But if you're counting on a chain of custody to "Confirm" an item, you need to confirm the chain of custody given.

 

Wow,,, I fell like I just wrote "how much wood can a woodchuck chuck..." LOL

 

Troy

 

 

 

Show me where in my post I used the word "confirmed"

 

 

Also,this is the info from post # 680:

 

"It came from 1SGT Rueben R. Summerfold ( ASN# 20204431) of BTRY-B 186FA 1st Infantry Division. He picked the helmet up during the battle of the Bulge in '44 and took it home."

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USMC-RECON0321

 

 

 

Show me where in my post I used the word "confirmed"

 

It doesn't, you have the chain of custody accurately described as it was given in this 28 page thread. I was just adding to your post to clarify what in the chain of custody is confirmed (known past owners of the helmet) and what is not confirmed (the story leading up to the first "known" owner of Brooks).

 

Troy

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Patchcollector

 

It doesn't, you have the chain of custody accurately described as it was given in this 28 page thread. I was just adding to your post to clarify what in the chain of custody is confirmed (known past owners of the helmet) and what is not confirmed (the story leading up to the first "known" owner of Brooks).

 

Troy

 

 

OK,I get it.Understood.

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ParanormalTrooper

I have got several messages into him but, have yet to receive any direct response. I assume he is aware of what is happening here?

Considering he blocked me on Instagram, I'd assume he knows.
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I inferred that he knew something was going on, but I don't know how much. I don't think he's been able to access the forum from where he's at, so maybe just email.

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