john k Posted August 10, 2017 Share #376 Posted August 10, 2017 People are concerned with the chain of custody here because there is serious doubt amongst some as to the authenticity of even the base M-2 helmet. The helmet was examined prior to being camo painted, and some at that time were concerned that the chinstraps had been replaced. If this is true, then the camo paint is the second time that this helmet has been humped. Are the markings themselves original? That's whats going on here. Isn't it kind of a given that a M2 with repaired bails would have replaced straps? I wouldn't think cotton and brazing heat would get along very well? My understanding is/was that the repaired bales and replaced straps was period original on many M2s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccmax Posted August 10, 2017 Share #377 Posted August 10, 2017 People are concerned with the chain of custody here because there is serious doubt amongst some as to the authenticity of even the base M-2 helmet. The helmet was examined prior to being camo painted, and some at that time were concerned that the chinstraps had been replaced. If this is true, then the camo paint is the second time that this helmet has been humped. Are the markings themselves original? That's whats going on here. If coming from Holland then there should be huge doubts cast on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David D Posted August 10, 2017 Share #378 Posted August 10, 2017 If coming from Holland then there should be huge doubts cast on it. Agreed, I've heard some horror stories about helmets coming from Holland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone Posted August 10, 2017 Share #379 Posted August 10, 2017 My knowledge, on this matter, comes from Mr. Kibbler while he owned the helmet and from what I have read on this forum. From what he told me and from what I read in a previous post, the helmet was bought by the Pa. collector on one of his visits to The Netherlands. The helmet came from Holland. Where it came from before that is confusing. So the helmet was in Holland, sold to a collector from Pa. USA while he was in Holland, and then it was sold to TK, then sold to Gettysburg, then sold to Jkash, then became a gas paint kamo? I thought that Shelton's son said the helmet was picked up by a 1 ID soldier (full name and service no. provided) after it was "lost in the Ardennes". If I may suggest something that I always do when running down hinky situations: compile a public timeline of the history of this helmet and who owned it when, from "Shelton M2" to Gas Paint Kamo. It would be very helpful to the thread IMHO. At least half of the owners of it are here participating and are reasonable and as outraged by this as anyone else. Filling that timeline in with when it was offered for sale, by whom, when the family came into the picture, etc., may really shed light on this. If anyone is interested..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Posted August 10, 2017 Share #380 Posted August 10, 2017 Isn't it kind of a given that a M2 with repaired bails would have replaced straps? I wouldn't think cotton and brazing heat would get along very well? My understanding is/was that the repaired bales and replaced straps was period original on many M2s. The same helmet with new paint also has new chinstraps that are different from the ones in post number 1 in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nirvana Posted August 10, 2017 Share #381 Posted August 10, 2017 Isn't it kind of a given that a M2 with repaired bails would have replaced straps? I wouldn't think cotton and brazing heat would get along very well? My understanding is/was that the repaired bales and replaced straps was period original on many M2s. To me replaced means postwar replaced. The helmet shell shows quite a bit of wear, while the straps don't. There is paint over the brazing that is chipped and dinged up, yet the straps don't show heavy wear. This smells odd to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone Posted August 10, 2017 Share #382 Posted August 10, 2017 BTW, what are the chances that the Shelton M2 was humped to match documentation and history of a real paratrooper. Then the family member did a Google search and found the helmet, not knowing it was humped. I've never in my life heard of a GI bringing home someone else's M1 as a souvenir. German helmets, plenty, even ceiling tiles with swastikas, but rarely if ever an M1 and never someone else's M1. So, has the original owner, Lt.Col. Shelton ID'd it conclusively as his? Or, is it "ID'd" because Shelton's son may have been bamboozled too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtilk8455 Posted August 10, 2017 Share #383 Posted August 10, 2017 Just my 2 cents on the whole matter. I think that it would be in everyone's best interest if a new thread was started about all the helmets purchased from this guy. They need to be documented as fakes so others aren't duped. as someone who has purchased a helmet from him and up until recently consider that helmet one of my centerpieces I think this would be for the best. I think a few of them may turn out to be original but this whole situation is a real shame. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stealthytyler Posted August 10, 2017 Share #384 Posted August 10, 2017 Just my 2 cents on the whole matter. I think that it would be in everyone's best interest if a new thread was started about all the helmets purchased from this guy. They need to be documented as fakes so others aren't duped. as someone who has purchased a helmet from him and up until recently consider that helmet one of my centerpieces I think this would be for the best. I think a few of them may turn out to be original but this whole situation is a real shame. Graham Agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchfoot Posted August 10, 2017 Share #385 Posted August 10, 2017 Just my 2 cents on the whole matter. I think that it would be in everyone's best interest if a new thread was started about all the helmets purchased from this guy. They need to be documented as fakes so others aren't duped. as someone who has purchased a helmet from him and up until recently consider that helmet one of my centerpieces I think this would be for the best. I think a few of them may turn out to be original but this whole situation is a real shame. Graham That's a great idea. Someone should post in the Real or What section, preferably a mod should post it so that we don't get multiple threads made on the same topic by accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted August 10, 2017 Share #386 Posted August 10, 2017 You may start a new thread if you like...if multiple threads are started we can merge them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gtilk8455 Posted August 10, 2017 Share #387 Posted August 10, 2017 You may start a new thread if you like...if multiple threads are started we can merge them.. I'm not at home at the moment but when I get back tomorrow morning I can take pictures and start a new thread in thee real or what section if no one else has yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burning Hazard Posted August 10, 2017 Share #388 Posted August 10, 2017 We're going into too much speculation with Shelton's helmet. For me the main point of this thread is: An M2 helmet (whether real or fake beforehand) belonging to "Shelton" came into possession of a VERY knowledgeable airborne member who took the shell and forged it into a $10,000 82nd Airborne camo creation. We have without a doubt concrete evidence, by means of visual comparison, that the shell belonging to "Shelton" is now the 82nd Airborne camo creation while still in the possession of the said member. Any collector knowingly altering a helmet and trying to pass it off as an original (even if careful wording is used) is a pretty serious violation, both forum and reputation wise; we've seen it happen in the past and those members who tried it were penalized. This why we're waiting on jkash to explain himself of what happened, assuming he ever responds. If we want to know who originally owned Shelton's helmet then I think a new thread would be necessary for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchfoot Posted August 10, 2017 Share #389 Posted August 10, 2017 Oh I just made a thread in the real or what section. You guys can go there to post pictures of jkash's helmets. I haven't posted any pictures yet because at the moment I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted August 10, 2017 Share #390 Posted August 10, 2017 Oh I just made a thread in the real or what section. You guys can go there to post pictures of jkash's helmets. I haven't posted any pictures yet because at the moment I can't. I've closed that thread, lets keep this discussion in one happy place for now. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCheese Posted August 10, 2017 Share #391 Posted August 10, 2017 I've closed that thread, lets keep this discussion in one happy place for now. Thanks! Why did you close the thread when tarbridge specifically said we could have one? It's a completely different topic, where we can condense images of everything that passed through Jamie's hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David D Posted August 10, 2017 Share #392 Posted August 10, 2017 I've closed that thread, lets keep this discussion in one happy place for now. Thanks! Why? This thread is about the Shelton helmet. I think it would be appropriate to have a thread to discuss these helmets further because if his helmets are deemed fake that could be a big issue with many collectors. And i am sure many members who bought from him are really questioning the helmets they bough from him. As these are some high end helmets that cost them large amounts of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john k Posted August 10, 2017 Share #393 Posted August 10, 2017 The same helmet with new paint also has new chinstraps that are different from the ones in post number 1 in this thread Oh my, I missed that. What a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchfoot Posted August 10, 2017 Share #394 Posted August 10, 2017 I've closed that thread, lets keep this discussion in one happy place for now. Thanks! I understand that completely. Maybe when we figure out what jkash is doing exactly then it might reopen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted August 10, 2017 Share #395 Posted August 10, 2017 We can start that thread after we have some closure with this thread.The concern is the new thread will get mired down with the ongoing thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted August 10, 2017 Share #396 Posted August 10, 2017 I understand that completely. Maybe when we figure out what jkash is doing exactly then it might reopen? Yeah, that would be better. Also, just a suggestion, statements like: "I'm so glad I don't collect M1 helmets" or "I'm so glad I sold off my collection" add nothing to the conversation. You can say it if you want but, it really annoys most everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchfoot Posted August 10, 2017 Share #397 Posted August 10, 2017 Yeah, that would be better. Also, just a suggestion, statements like: "I'm so glad I don't collect M1 helmets" or "I'm so glad I sold off my collection" add nothing to the conversation. You can say it if you want but, it really annoys most everyone. Glad we could clear that up. Anyway, what Burning Hazard recently said sums up what this thread has uncovered so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccmax Posted August 10, 2017 Share #398 Posted August 10, 2017 It's from one seller in particular. I am sure there are a lot of nice helmets being found there. Agreed, I've heard some horror stories about helmets coming from Holland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbassmaster18 Posted August 10, 2017 Share #399 Posted August 10, 2017 Yeah, that would be better. Also, just a suggestion, statements like: "I'm so glad I don't collect M1 helmets" or "I'm so glad I sold off my collection" add nothing to the conversation. You can say it if you want but, it really annoys most everyone. I'm sorry you are annoyed scott. Not my intent, but I am glad I got out of collecting. Not just for this reason, but being debt free and not living paycheck to paycheck is another big bonus. I still think this whole situation is sad and really hurts the hobby. -J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patchcollector Posted August 10, 2017 Share #400 Posted August 10, 2017 I think that it is a good idea to have all that want to,post the helmets that they purchased from JKash within one thread.I was going to suggest it earlier but didn't feel comfortable doing it because I'm not a helmet collector.I also agree that it would be better to wait until this current situation runs it's course until that thread begins building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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