Fake: M2 of Lt. Joseph Shelton 505th PIR - jkash

[RustyCanteen]

Enough of this.

[nirvana]

Some people keep saying "let's wait for an explanation." What explanation could possibly be given that would clear this up and resolve all the issues? The pictures *appear* to show the same helmet, with a new paint job, a replaced liner, and a new backstory. There also appears to be another helmet wearing the previous liner. There also appears to be a pretty clear chain of ownership that links these events together.

 

So please, someone: tell me what could be said that would resolve this in a manner that removes any and all apparent ethical questions? A helmet looks to have grown a camo paint job, a new liner, and it is now for sale. Come up with something that explains this, one that doesn't involve aliens or time travel, and I'll pretend along and we can discuss it.

[iron bender]

I find it very surprising that the absolute center-piece of any helmet collection would be traded around this frequently. I saw the post about recovering investment is easiest within a two year period. If this helmet were legit and in my collection, it wouldn't be sold. But then I'm more into the collecting and less into the investment part.

[Forum Manager]

 

Can you post some sort of proof you are who you say you are? I don't doubt what you say is true, but we have two accounts in this thread with

 

What a ridiculous posting. How do we know you are you say you are? You could just post a photo of someone and say it you with a photo you took someplace else. Doesn't make much sense does it?

 

I said yesterday that this is a very heated subject and everyone needs to relax a bit. When and IF Jamie every answers we can move from there.

 

But like I also said, everyone who is making up all their "accusations" will also be held to the same scrutiny that Jamie is. So think about that before you post more theories.

[ArchangelDM]

 

I wonder what Jamie traded to the museum to get the Shelton Helmet ?????

Love to see the trade , what was it ?

[Patchcollector]

I'm wondering why would anyone want to remove the Shelton connection from the helmet?

[tarbridge]

I locked it.We have a gentleman who was put into a thread not of his choosing and he needs to provide a DNA sample to prove his identification. Some of you need to revisit your actions.Mr Dorr who is a person I know by sight only...never conducted business or had a conversation, I post that before the accusations begin.We have 9 pages and have let you bounce this thread off the wall...but none of will be allowed to insult members.

You may send me PM's with a logical reason or new information to be added.

[GeneralCheese]

I'd like to apologize to Erik Dorr and Tom Kibler, I should have handled my question about proof privately rather than on the thread.

[nirvana]

I'd like to apologize to Erik Dorr and Tom Kibler, I should have handled my question about proof privately rather than on the thread.

If the "veteran's son" didn't show up puffing the now altered helmet, your question would strike me as insane and irrelevant to the discussion. At this point, I simply don't know how it should have been handled. I am glad that the thread is unlocked so that we can get to the bottom of this.

 

How this forum reacts to this specific incident is going to have a big effect on this hobby as it moves forward, and how this forum is viewed in the future. The rust and grime and paint needs to be scrubbed off of these, and we need to get to bare metal. Anything less is wrong.

[manayunkman]

There is a huge disconnect here.

 

Who takes a $10,000 helmet with "provenance" and turns it into a piece of crap?

 

That's not what fakers do.

 

It's not April 1st so this isn't a joke or is it?

 

I'll ask again, who in their right mind uses a $10,000 helmet to make a fake?

 

No one in their right mind no matter how corrupt they are or seem to be.

[sgtdorango]

You are right It doesnt make any sense thats for sure...i think a faker took a 6-7K helmet and was trying to squeak a few more Ks out of it..stupid mistake...or lucky for the helmet collecting world that it spilled the beans....mike

[Ty-rva]

Hi all,

 

I agree with this huge disconnect. Who in their right mind ( especially a dealer ) would alter a great historical helmet to make it worthless unless he already knew it was fake to begin with. These seems to be the most logical conclusion to me. Was this a created fake helmet and the coincidental vet provenance that gave it too much attention? The person further "enhanced" it because he knew it was already fake to begin with. The fake camo and liner switching was an effort to cover up the attention it was given with the vet provenance?

Perhaps this is my wishful thinking in an effort to not believe that someone would destroy something so great.

[manayunkman]

Jamie is a real smart guy, from what I gather from following his threads and coments, and now he is in Africa, for work?

 

Regardless why he is there, the point is is that he is no dummy.

 

This has dummy written all over it unless it's something else.

[doyler]

Jamie is a real smart guy, from what I gather from following his threads and coments, and now he is in Africa, for work?

 

Regardless why he is there, the point is is that he is no dummy.

 

This has dummy written all over it unless it's something else.

He was last active here or on line august 5th at 4am.....according to his profile

[MasonK]

Hi all,

 

I agree with this huge disconnect. Who in their right mind ( especially a dealer ) would alter a great historical helmet to make it worthless unless he already knew it was fake to begin with. These seems to be the most logical conclusion to me. Was this a created fake helmet and the coincidental vet provenance that gave it too much attention? The person further "enhanced" it because he knew it was already fake to begin with. The fake camo and liner switching was an effort to cover up the attention it was given with the vet provenance?

Perhaps this is my wishful thinking in an effort to not believe that someone would destroy something so great.

 

Regardless of whether it was authentic or not, no matter how you look at it, this doesn't justify him trying to sell an altered helmet for $10,000.

 

Everyone's trying to make heads or tails of the situation, or find some justification, but I think it may simply come down to greed. I agree, from his postings, he is an intelligent person. But money supersedes all for some, and it appears that may have been the case here.

[manayunkman]

Mike,

 

Why make an obvious fake from a rock solid provenance helmet that will only go up in value?

 

I think the provenance helmet is worth more than a camo helmet so to me it realy makes no sense.

 

And I say obvious because we all know there are a bunch of us (we thank God for you) who document helmets and liners and memorize it all.

 

So to them the replaced liner blunder is obvious.

[Ronny67]

I have emailed privately with Jamie for years. Everytime he would leave for vacation, he would have his email automatically respond to any incoming correspondence with the an email of the following format, (copied and pasted from one of our past conversations):

 

I will be out of the office and unavailable from the 26th - 2nd of July,

Thanks

 

Currently, his email is not auto-replying with an out of office notice, even though he is on a month long trip. The above email was received when he traveled to London, which he posted photos of on his facebook. So he really went to London. But Africa does not get the same treatment? Guys, this is very suspicious.

 

I am only posting facts here. Not speculation.

[sgtdorango]

Its totally not logical you are right....if i had my choice i would buy the ided shelton m2 over a camo m2 but i think it was pure greed and ego...i think whoever did this went "a helmet too far".....mike

[ArchangelDM]

Guys he point here is that Jamie is very very knowledgeable about helmets , more so than most and he has a website that sells helmets.

IF anyone knew how to spot a fake or argue the paint on a helmet it was him.

He has the original helmet and is now selling an altered version of it with a gas detection Camo paint scheme.

 

He knows what he's done ,

And i feel very very used that there literally has been a wolf in the sheeps pen for a very long time.

 

This is my opinion and my opinion alone

 

IF by chance this all gets explained and I'm wrong I will gladly apolagose, until then it's as clear as day.

[warpath]

As a US helmet collector with more than a few months experience in the field I have witnessed quite a few instances of bogus helmets being ordered and offered at shows. Sometimes the artists were discovered while more often the artists and dealers quietly continued the scams. I am advising that US helmets are far easier to fake than German helmets and with the proliferation of helmet gurus since Saving Private Ryan the hobby/business is rife with bogus pieces.

 

If you believe hard enough M2 helmets will fall into your lap seems to be the way some folks think. I've seen US helmets in major collections that had one real Airborne helmet out of 20 shown. There are closet collectors who blindly followed trusted sellers who now have collections filled with costly errors (I am being very kind here since the sellers were actually creating and marketing helmets for major $$$ with ill intent) many of which amazingly are 101st Airborne helmets. There may be more 506th PIR helmets now than there were in WWII.

 

The M2 helmet(s) in question here is a prime example of the caution collectors and dealers need to be concerned with. Everyone makes mistakes buying and selling and that should shorten your learning curve, but selling an altered artifact is an entirely different matter. Public exposure of any attempts to offer modified or outright fake helmets should be made known to collectors.

[Patchcollector]

First I would like to state that I'm trying to figure out a possible reason for what looks to have been done.I have no direct evidence,just a theory.

 

I'm not so certain that this was done purely out of greed,but perhaps to also cover tracks for some reason.On one of the prior posts there was a mention of someone making false accusations of "stolen property".Then the helmet was sold to an individual,JKash.Now it appears that JKash has attempted to remove the connection of Shelton from the helmet. I am NOT saying that the item(s) were ever stolen.However,perhaps Mr Kash,fearing closer scrutiny of the helmet at some point,decided to "launder" the pieces of the item(s) in question separately,for reasons known only to him.

[gitana]

This has dummy written all over it unless it's something else.

 

I've known people drowning in debt as they continue to collect. Could be that simple, which also has dummy written all over it.

[Ty-rva]

MasonK, just to be clear. I'm not justifying anything. The entire thing makes me sick.

[Burning Hazard]

I'd like to throw in my personal opinion on this matter, just trying to piece all the events.

 

Right now this is what we do know:

 

- Shelton's helmet was not a fake based from two sources on the forum (Gettysburg Museum and Tom Kibler).

 

- Shelton's helmet was sold to jkash which he posted back in 2016 and the thread eventually gets buried.

 

- Recently, the M2 Camo is posted on eBay for $10,000 and a thread questioning its authenticity is posted in the Real or What? section, note that jkash is very adamant to defend this M2 camo in the thread.

 

- Shelton's helmet thread from 2016 gets bumped by the Shelton's son and jkash claims that helmet was sold. The M2 camo is taken off eBay.

 

- Forum member ID's the brazing work done on Shelton's helmet to be the same as the M2 camo, further investigations proves that it's the same shell based on the scratches.

 

- Shelton's liner is now part of a 501st PIR helmet still for sale on his site.

 

- Fury erupts

 

I would also like to point out that jkash is very knowledgeable about fakes and how the system works, I'm positive he's got nothing to say after this.

 

Here are some past quotes of his:

 

[cutiger83]

I'd like to throw in my personal opinion on this matter, just trying to piece all the events.

 

Right now this is what we do know:

 

 

 

 

Thank you for summing this up. This has been a little confusing so this really helps.

 

...Kat