GettysburgMuseumOfHistory Posted August 7, 2017 Share #101 Posted August 7, 2017 What fakes are in my Museum David? I traded the helmet to Jamie and if it is the same one it left here in it's original condition. It was 100% authentic and very well vetted. The family was just here to see the helmet and I had to tell them it is now gone. Lt. Shelton is still alive. The family is very nice and if his helmet was ruined by repainting it is a terrible blow to a historic named helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David D Posted August 7, 2017 Share #102 Posted August 7, 2017 For starters that 2nd ranger helmet posted earlier in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted August 7, 2017 Share #103 Posted August 7, 2017 Who's to say the person posting as the grandson of Joseph Shelton wasn't Jamie himself? It would certainly garner more interest in the helmet, and possibly quicken a sale. Given the latest revelations, I doubt anything till proof is provided.Who is to say it was not Jimmy Hoffa or Kilroy...If you have proof...enlighten us.I am trying hard to keep this thread active but if unfounded accusations are all you have...you will cause it to get closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 7, 2017 Share #104 Posted August 7, 2017 Who's to say the person posting as the grandson of Joseph Shelton wasn't Jamie himself? It would certainly garner more interest in the helmet, and possibly quicken a sale. Given the latest revelations, I doubt anything till proof is provided. On Jkash's forum thread about his website he said he listed J Sheltons helmet, but nowhere on the website does he mention the name Joseph or Shelton and shows no pictures of the laundry mark JS.O.26781 and the liner with the name Shelton written on the sweatband has been replaced. I don't think it would quicken the sale, because he isn't selling it as Joseph Shelton's helmet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMC-RECON0321 Posted August 7, 2017 Share #105 Posted August 7, 2017 My post stated nothing about me being "suspicious" about the Son.I only stated that IMO I found it odd that he didn't appear interested in owning his Fathers helmet.If it were me I would love to have my Dads helmet. Sorry, was just combining the three posts about the son to pull the conversation together to see what was the meaning I was missing. I just wasn't getting it?? But I also agree, to me I would love to own my Grandfather's helmet if it ever surfaced. Who's to say the person posting as the grandson of Joseph Shelton wasn't Jamie himself? It would certainly garner more interest in the helmet, and possibly quicken a sale. Given the latest revelations, I doubt anything till proof is provided. URIK, I believe looking at the dates of the ebay listing of this helmet compared to when the son showed up, the helmet had already been listed on eBay in it's current condition and no ID mentioned or seen, so it wasn't being sold as the Vets helmet as far as I can tell. Also Jamie, responded to the vets son in this thread; stating that if he didn't already sell his Father's helmet, he would've gave it to him. I guess that's why I was wondering what the suspicion was about the son responding, other than it obviously led to the issues being discussed currently about this helmet. Thanks Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WWII_GI Posted August 7, 2017 Share #106 Posted August 7, 2017 Looks like our missing westinghouse liner ended up in this helmet... http://wwiidropzone.com/product/2501st-pir-101st-airborne-2nd-lt-fixed-bail-w-westinghouse-airborne-liner/ -Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URIK Posted August 7, 2017 Share #107 Posted August 7, 2017 Who is to say it was not Jimmy Hoffa or Kilroy...If you have proof...enlighten us.I am trying hard to keep this thread active but if unfounded accusations are all you have...you will cause it to get closed. Umm, what??? Are we not allowed to question the authenticity of something or someone for the sake of identifying fraud? Or are you just going to attack me and edit my responses every time I pose such a question? Might you be best buddies with Mr. Jkash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URIK Posted August 7, 2017 Share #108 Posted August 7, 2017 URIK, I believe looking at the dates of the ebay listing of this helmet compared to when the son showed up, the helmet had already been listed on eBay in it's current condition and no ID mentioned or seen, so it wasn't being sold as the Vets helmet as far as I can tell. Also Jamie, responded to the vets son in this thread; stating that if he didn't already sell his Father's helmet, he would've gave it to him. I guess that's why I was wondering what the suspicion was about the son responding, other than it obviously led to the issues being discussed currently about this helmet. Thanks Troy I was merely sharing my opinion, not stating anything as fact. It very well could have been the son (or grandson?) of Mr. Shelton. However as I said, the recent revelations cause one to now question everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogface44 Posted August 7, 2017 Share #109 Posted August 7, 2017 Maybe a mod can email him ? Sorry but do you really actually think that the guy hasn't even seen / heard from this post ? He is just waiting for it to time out. Of course he knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKEsaysGO44 Posted August 7, 2017 Share #110 Posted August 7, 2017 Looks like our missing westinghouse liner ended up in this helmet... http://wwiidropzone.com/product/2501st-pir-101st-airborne-2nd-lt-fixed-bail-w-westinghouse-airborne-liner/ post-22057-0-92821400-1482013539.jpgDSC_0778.jpg -Steven It gets better and better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted August 7, 2017 Share #111 Posted August 7, 2017 Umm, what??? Are we not allowed to question the authenticity of something or someone for the sake of identifying fraud? Or are you just going to attack me and edit my responses every time I pose such a question? Might you be best buddies with Mr. Jkash?You accuse everybody or anybody that responds to your unsubstantiated accusations. I returned the edited(accusations not knowledge) post to its original state.Now you attack me...I am 59 years old and in those 59 years I have saw Jkash 2 or 3 times in person(show) and have averaged a Hello each time...for a total of possibly 3 words spoken.You personally are attacking folks I have the impression you do not like...maybe a unreunited vendetta? I said nothing concerning questioning the ability to authenticate an item that could be fraudulent. YOU are trying to claim Jkash of imitating the veterans son...outlandish...unless you have proof. Since you could not comprehend my last post to you and if you need help with this one...I will be glad to color it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum Manager Posted August 7, 2017 Share #112 Posted August 7, 2017 Enough is enough. This thread has put everyone on edge. Those that have an ax to grind with Jaime and those that are his friends all have their blood boiling right now. There are some pretty outlandish theories going around also. Is there any proof to some of these theories that are being posted here? If not I would back off very quickly and tuck my tail between my legs. Obviously nothing is going to be accomplished with this witch hunt until Jaime can respond. That may be today, tomorrow, when he gets back from his trip, or never. Until then mind your manners and act like adults, if you can't then expect the same scrutiny on yourselves that you are throwing out here. When and if this gets settled no matter who is wrong or right, everyone in this thread is going to be held at the same level of responsibility. That means the ones throwing out made up scenarios, the ones attacking moderators and accusing them of being in cahoots with Jaime, etc. There may be a banning or numerous bannings from this forum. You are each responsible for what you posts, and now we will see how that plays out. If you don't have proof or something constructive to say, don't say anything at all. Keep your theories to yourself until we see how this plays out. FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
URIK Posted August 7, 2017 Share #113 Posted August 7, 2017 You accuse everybody or anybody that responds to your unsubstantiated accusations. I returned the edited(accusations not knowledge) post to its original state.Now you attack me...I am 59 years old and in those 59 years I have saw Jkash 2 or 3 times in person(show) and have averaged a Hello each time...for a total of possibly 3 words spoken. You personally are attacking folks I have the impression you do not like...maybe a unreunited vendetta? I said nothing concerning questioning the ability to authenticate an item that could be fraudulent. YOU are trying to claim Jkash of imitating the veterans son...outlandish...unless you have proof. Since you could not comprehend my last post to you and if you need help with this one...I will be glad to color it for you. Not once did I accuse anyone of anything outside the evidence already posted here. You first shamed members for their reactions to what was done to this helmet, and my response was just. The fact that you are now making bases accusations against me for nothing other than sharing my opinions illogical and unreasonable. I've never dealt with nor met anyone mentioned on this forum except Robinb. So you can claim vendetta all you like. It's your burden to prove that. Given you have gone rogue with the personal attacks, I'll refrain from responding till you can me calmed down by another moderator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted August 7, 2017 Share #114 Posted August 7, 2017 Not once did I accuse anyone of anything outside the evidence already posted here. You first shamed members for their reactions to what was done to this helmet, and my response was just. The fact that you are now making bases accusations against me for nothing other than sharing my opinions illogical and unreasonable. I've never dealt with nor met anyone mentioned on this forum except Robinb. So you can claim vendetta all you like. It's your burden to prove that. Given you have gone rogue with the personal attacks, I'll refrain from responding till you can me calmed down by another moderator. You're too funny.We have asked that all members keep it to the simple discussion of the helmet(s) and the possibility of tampering of the original condition...that being done with fraudulent intent.There are personal attacks being launched.Anymore and this thread will be locked until the "accused" responds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted August 7, 2017 Share #115 Posted August 7, 2017 Not once did I accuse anyone of anything outside the evidence already posted here. You first shamed members for their reactions to what was done to this helmet, and my response was just.... Actually the shaming thing was me but, I don't think that really matters to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirt Detective Posted August 7, 2017 Share #116 Posted August 7, 2017 I've looked and looked at that D bail repair..maybe its just me but I see some differences. Its close but I see small differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David D Posted August 7, 2017 Share #117 Posted August 7, 2017 Please elaborate, they look identical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 8, 2017 Share #118 Posted August 8, 2017 A little bit of the paint has flaked off, otherwise they are they exact same. They are at a different angles, which might be why they look slightly different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonK Posted August 8, 2017 Share #119 Posted August 8, 2017 Side by side comparison. The "newer" photos show additional chipping, likely from handling. Multiple points, however, are identical. A few of which I've circled below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonK Posted August 8, 2017 Share #120 Posted August 8, 2017 Another comparison. My first reaction when seeing was he may have uncovered the paint, however the added paint on the rim where it was previously exposed stainless steel is the nail in the coffin that this was 100% fabricated camo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Finn Posted August 8, 2017 Share #121 Posted August 8, 2017 Wow! I was bored and getting ready for bed, until I started reading this thread. It seems to me everyone here has valid points and valid questions; and there is only one person who can answer them, but will he? Stay tuned... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonK Posted August 8, 2017 Share #122 Posted August 8, 2017 Looks like the entire helmet has received a repaint. Consistent green throughout under the yellow/orange, and added green on the rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-o MSU Posted August 8, 2017 Share #123 Posted August 8, 2017 MasonK nice work! Thanks for taking the time to do that. The pictures speak for themselves. Blows my mind that anyone would do that to a completely original ID'd helmet. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonK Posted August 8, 2017 Share #124 Posted August 8, 2017 I wonder what happened to the Officer's service #/initials inside the shell? No photos of the interior on his website. Hopefully they are still in tact... You can see where "camo" paint was added to the rim, and the variation of light and dark green before being tampered with. Unless it's the light, the green appears darker, and consistent throughout on the tampered with helmet, leaving me to believe it received a full repaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-o MSU Posted August 8, 2017 Share #125 Posted August 8, 2017 In the eBay description I believe he said the inside had thick green paint and the heat stamp was barely visible so I think he probably painted over the numbers. Would also help cover his tracks and prevent anyone from finding this thread. An ID'd paratrooper helmet is a great selling point, why would any reputable dealer hide that fact? Here is the description from the website "Beautiful camo painted M2 D loop, with Inland Paratrooper liner. The shell itself is an original M2 helmet with both bails repaired and original M2 straps reattached. If you look at the close ups of the bails you can see the repairs are typical field repairs with brass brazing. You can also see the original M2 feet under the brazing on both sides. With the repaint the heat number is not visible. The straps are original M2 OD3 11 row straps with early brash buckles and proper male fasteners. The exterior has been totally overpainted after the repairs and then camo painted with gas detection paint. This camo scheme was typical of the 82nd Airborne during WWII." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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