Dirt Detective Posted August 8, 2017 Share #126 Posted August 8, 2017 I stand corrected...the little lady and I blew up both pics of the brazed area and they both have the same shape of a dog and the eye is in the same spot...Excellent work mason. Looks to be the same lid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonK Posted August 8, 2017 Share #127 Posted August 8, 2017 Looks like our missing westinghouse liner ended up in this helmet... http://wwiidropzone.com/product/2501st-pir-101st-airborne-2nd-lt-fixed-bail-w-westinghouse-airborne-liner/ post-22057-0-92821400-1482013539.jpgDSC_0778.jpg -Steven Good Eye, Steven. Comparison for anyone who is unsure; definitely the same Westy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonK Posted August 8, 2017 Share #128 Posted August 8, 2017 In the eBay description I believe he said the inside had thick green paint and the heat stamp was barely visible so I think he probably painted over the numbers. Would also help cover his tracks and prevent anyone from finding this thread. An ID'd paratrooper helmet is a great selling point, why would any reputable dealer hide that fact? Here is the description from the website "Beautiful camo painted M2 D loop, with Inland Paratrooper liner. The shell itself is an original M2 helmet with both bails repaired and original M2 straps reattached. If you look at the close ups of the bails you can see the repairs are typical field repairs with brass brazing. You can also see the original M2 feet under the brazing on both sides. With the repaint the heat number is not visible. The straps are original M2 OD3 11 row straps with early brash buckles and proper male fasteners. The exterior has been totally overpainted after the repairs and then camo painted with gas detection paint. This camo scheme was typical of the 82nd Airborne during WWII." Wow, what a shame. I wonder if he stripped the original paint on the outside, or just painted over? Hopefully the latter, and someone can try to restore this to as close as original as possible, including uncovering the laundry #. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-o MSU Posted August 8, 2017 Share #129 Posted August 8, 2017 That was a bit of conjecture by me about the interior. I do not know for sure. I'm hopeful that someone could restore this helmet. I don't see this playing out well at this point. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 8, 2017 Share #130 Posted August 8, 2017 Wow, what a shame. I wonder if he stripped the original paint on the outside, or just painted over? Hopefully the latter, and someone can try to restore this to as close as original as possible, including uncovering the laundry #. Unfortunately, resorting it would cost $8000 for the shell, and who knows how much and who has the liner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtdorango Posted August 8, 2017 Share #131 Posted August 8, 2017 Utterly heartbreaking to see what has happened to that incredible helmet.............mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasonK Posted August 8, 2017 Share #132 Posted August 8, 2017 The exterior has been totally overpainted after the repairs and then camo painted with gas detection paint. This camo scheme was typical of the 82nd Airborne during WWII." Couldn't remember the name of the paint; vesicant paint! Sounds much better than yellow/orange. Was having a major brain fart on that one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete-o MSU Posted August 8, 2017 Share #133 Posted August 8, 2017 Unfortunately, resorting it would cost $8000 for the shell, and who knows how much and who has the liner. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1966ww2collector Posted August 8, 2017 Share #134 Posted August 8, 2017 For reference, her is the May 14, 2017 "For Sale" listing of the original helmet. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/289959-M2-of-Lt.-Joseph-Shelton-505th-PIR Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob590ert Posted August 8, 2017 Share #135 Posted August 8, 2017 http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/294329-wwii-camo-painted-m2-d-loop-airborne-helmet-w-inland-paratrooper-liner/ Here's another thread on this helmet added for reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob590ert Posted August 8, 2017 Share #136 Posted August 8, 2017 After seeing all of this, I'm more disgusted at the fact that this helmet was sacrificed to try and make a buck. A helmet that had tons of history and tons of research potential and NAMED to top it off, ruined for a fancy paint job. How long has this been going on, and who has allowed it to go on? Im not saying all of his helmets are fake-but this thread certainly opens some doors and hopefully opens some eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plick27 Posted August 8, 2017 Share #137 Posted August 8, 2017 Good catch Robin and nice leg work all but dammit, this thread is so disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Driver Posted August 8, 2017 Share #138 Posted August 8, 2017 I'm afraid that as with anything, when money is more important than history, this stuff will continue to happen. While I'm hard pressed to see how, I sure hope there is some reasonable explanation to all this. I've had a lot of respect for Jamie. It would be hard to see that shattered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCheese Posted August 8, 2017 Share #139 Posted August 8, 2017 This is unbelievable. I'm not going to assume anything but only go off of what we know, and unfortunately that is 100% the same helmet, now sporting a hideous paint job. I only hope that it was fake originally, otherwise the world has lost an amazing piece of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustin Posted August 8, 2017 Share #140 Posted August 8, 2017 It seems many here are running on the assumption that the Shelton helmet was even real. Is it even authentic? .... wouldn't it be reasonable to now question every helmet that has passed through the Drop Zone? Is/was it convenient the heat number was not visible? Is it not convenient to hide the tall tale signs of the feet of the loops by the braze? Speculation.... yes but legitimate questions, what would it hurt if you cleaned away some of the paint to reveal that heat number? Don't think it would decline value. My question is, with the details being unfolded as they are, what does this do the creditbility of authentication of WWII painted helmets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCheese Posted August 8, 2017 Share #141 Posted August 8, 2017 It seems many here are running on the assumption that the Shelton helmet was even real. Is it even authentic? .... wouldn't it be reasonable to now question every helmet that has passed through the Drop Zone? Is/was it convenient the heat number was not visible? Is it not convenient to hide the tall tale signs of the feet of the loops by the braze? Speculation.... yes but legitimate questions, what would it hurt if you cleaned away some of the paint to reveal that heat number? Don't think it would decline value. My question is, with the details being unfolded as they are, what does this do the creditbility of authentication of WWII painted helmets? I think this gives us a great example of what to look for in terms of fakes. We now have high quality pictures of a well-made fake to study off of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manayunkman Posted August 8, 2017 Share #142 Posted August 8, 2017 It makes sense that the Shelton M2 would be a fake otherwise who would destroy it? Why was it changed? Did someone discover that the Shelton helmet was tainted? Quick change it to something else of equal value (Camo M2 = M2 with great provenance). Where did the Shelton helmet come from? Overall it was a dumb thing to do compounded by revealing amateur mistakes with an unraveling of secrets that will probably show that more than one person is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCheese Posted August 8, 2017 Share #143 Posted August 8, 2017 It makes sense that the Shelton M2 would be a fake otherwise who would destroy it? Why was it changed? Did someone discover that the Shelton helmet was tainted? Quick change it to something else of equal value (Camo M2 = M2 with great provenance). Where did the Shelton helmet come from? Overall it was a dumb thing to do compounded by revealing amateur mistakes with an unraveling of secrets that will probably show that more than one person is involved. It's gotta be, there's no way anyone would knowingly deface an original helmet like that. I'm just astounded they could be so sloppy... Normally when a helmet gets a "touch up" like this it surfaces halfway across the world from where it was sold originally. Not by the same person who posted it on several sites just months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted August 8, 2017 Share #144 Posted August 8, 2017 It's gotta be, there's no way anyone would knowingly deface an original helmet like that. I'm just astounded they could be so sloppy... Normally when a helmet gets a "touch up" like this it surfaces halfway across the world from where it was sold originally. Not by the same person who posted it on several sites just months ago. Some of the work done here by the members of this forum is truly amazing ! For those that have taken the Time with the resizing of the pics , looking for the clues, studying all the pics and given detailed info on this helmet I thankyou. We should all be as vigilant and determined from now on , and more importantly should stick together as a forum to help weed out the fakers and bring to light these types of topics so others don't get burned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCheese Posted August 8, 2017 Share #145 Posted August 8, 2017 Some of the work done here by the members of this forum is truly amazing ! For those that have taken the Time with the resizing of the pics , looking for the clues, studying all the pics and given detailed info on this helmet I thankyou. We should all be as vigilant and determined from now on , and more importantly should stick together as a forum to help weed out the fakers and bring to light these types of topics so others don't get burned I agree, those with the circle tool on paint are helping protect the rest of us. In the interest of all the sleuths here, I am attaching some photos of an Inland liner I sold jkash several months ago. I've checked his site, and it does not match either the one in the helmet currently being discussed, nor the liner in the "Camo 82nd" helmet on his site. If this shows up anywhere claiming to have come with a helmet, that's a lie. The liner itself is 100% original though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralCheese Posted August 8, 2017 Share #146 Posted August 8, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 8, 2017 Share #147 Posted August 8, 2017 On Jkash's forum thread about his website he said he listed J Sheltons helmet, but nowhere on the website does he mention the name Joseph or Shelton and shows no pictures of the laundry mark JS.O.26781 and the liner with the name Shelton written on the sweatband has been replaced. I don't think it would quicken the sale, because he isn't selling it as Joseph Shelton's helmet. Cadet Duck first posted on August 1st. The Helmet was already painted at least as early as early as July 22nd when it was posted on Jkash's instagram https://www.instagram.com/p/BW3uWz-hogX/?taken-by=wwii_dropzone_helmets and listed for sale on ebay on July 25th. The same day (August 1st) that Cadet Duck brought this thread back to the top Jkash ended his ebay listing http://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-CAMO-PAINTED-M2-D-LOOP-AIRBORNE-HELMET-W-INLAND-PARATROOPER-LINER-/253063508903?hash=item3aebc2b3a7%3Ag%3Ak5AAAOSwhuxZd8LN&nma=true&si=EAEbgnTS4WixQyj98Mb3e9SatZ0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Camouflage Pattern I Posted August 8, 2017 Share #148 Posted August 8, 2017 https://www.instagram.com/p/BSG_2FRBh13/?taken-by=wwii_dropzone_helmets While this image is the same one posted in this thread back in December, I don't think Jkash would post it if the helmet had been painted. I believe it was repainted, so I think it was painted some time between March 26th and July 22nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king802 Posted August 8, 2017 Share #149 Posted August 8, 2017 Let's face it we are all looking for these rare helmets yet Jamie managed to find them on a regular basis. Casually coming across M2's at will. If as it would appear, that the Shelton helmet is a fake then in all honesty his other helmets are also likely to be fake, or at very least the markings on them. Others have already expressed doubt over some of his helmets. I find it hard to believe that there is a reasonable explanation to all this. The silent majority have allowed this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pelseth Posted August 8, 2017 Share #150 Posted August 8, 2017 It makes sense that the Shelton M2 would be a fake otherwise who would destroy it? Why was it changed? Did someone discover that the Shelton helmet was tainted? Quick change it to something else of equal value (Camo M2 = M2 with great provenance). Where did the Shelton helmet come from? Overall it was a dumb thing to do compounded by revealing amateur mistakes with an unraveling of secrets that will probably show that more than one person is involved. This very thing occurred to me, too, but... Wasn't the Shelton M2 owned by at lest a couple of other members before the OP? Are you suggesting it might be an "older" job recently discovered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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