David D Posted August 22, 2017 Share #976 Posted August 22, 2017 Definitely done by the same hand IMO. Same brush strokes and more noticeably, the same aging technique was used. Unfortunately, I think Panzer bought one of JKash's creations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Dentino Posted August 22, 2017 Share #977 Posted August 22, 2017 Brig, great post with a lot of well thought out and relayed insight. I have been guilty of at least a couple of your points and your post drove home for me the adulation I have given some in this hobby who I accepted as "authorities" in areas in which my knowledge was weak. Points well made, Brig, and safe returns back to the land of the living. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone Posted August 22, 2017 Share #978 Posted August 22, 2017 Here is a crappy resized screenshot I found. Would love to hear opinions from more seasoned collectors. Sadly Pete, what we are seeing is insanely easy to fake and practically impossible to authenticate, unless you got it from the vet's hands himself for less than the cost of the helmet itself, with period pictures of him with it. The "wear" and "age" is very contrived. If this is a general representation of what has been trafficked in M1 collecting for high dollar, your ranks were ripe for huckster infiltration, I'm sorry to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccmax Posted August 22, 2017 Share #979 Posted August 22, 2017 Pete, done by the same hands. Dirt/patina sits on top of the white paint as opposed to original pieces in which the real aging is incrusted in the paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzer224 Posted August 22, 2017 Share #980 Posted August 22, 2017 Sent an email to Jamie today, I am hoping for a response relatively soon, however we shall see. I do see the similarities of the markings between the 501st and 502nd helmets. For what it's worth to note, I used original photos of the 502nd at Bastonge as well as helmets from the "Paratrooper Helmets" reference book of the documented 502nd helmets from Bastonge to compare with this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted August 22, 2017 Share #981 Posted August 22, 2017 Sadly Pete, what we are seeing is insanely easy to fake and practically impossible to authenticate, unless you got it from the vet's hands himself for less than the cost of the helmet itself, with period pictures of him with it. The "wear" and "age" is very contrived. If this is a general representation of what has been trafficked in M1 collecting for high dollar, your ranks were ripe for huckster infiltration, I'm sorry to say. Oh yeah, we done got took! We've been saying this day would eventually arrive and now the chickens have come home. We just didn't see it coming from someone whom we all knew and thought well of. We tended to believe it would be some TR faker from a dark underworld basement somewhere in the old Soviet bloc creating Champagne Rune & Normandy Camo debauchery who now tried to peddle his wares in the U.S. helmet field... We were wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted August 22, 2017 Share #982 Posted August 22, 2017 Suggestion...some of you guys get together and make a list of questions that you would like Jamie to answer...instead of them being flung out there willy-nilly. The forum can provide the platform that both parties can use for a dialogue. We can't make any individual respond or answer. I went thru all of the questions that have been posted since Jamie returned to the forum. I removed the duplicates. The questions that have been asked the most frequently are listed at the top. I broke the questions into two groups. The first group of questions deals with the painting of helmets. The second group of questions deals with the Shelton helmet. Painting of helmets: 1) Do you have a list or pictures of all the helmets you painted? 2) Did you paint helmets for forum members? 3) What forum members knew you were painting helmets? 4) Were you the only person painting the helmets? 5) Who commissioned your talent and who is capitalizing on it? 6) How did you sell your service? If you painted helmets for vets, how did they find out about you? 7) Were you recruited or conspired with one or more to pull this off? 8) How long have you been painting helmets up with the rare unit markings? 9) Were some of the airborne helmets you painted up done on legit M2 helmets? 10) What is going to happen with the refunded helmets? 11) Will you admit there are other bogus helmets besides the Shelton helmet that you sold as original? 12) Were all the inland airborne liners faked also? Answered “No” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted August 22, 2017 Share #983 Posted August 22, 2017 Here are the questions involving the Shelton helmet: 1) Was the Shelton helmet from Europe? And why how did you get it? 2) Who is original artist on the Shelton helmet and who did they work for? 3) The veteran Shelton story where did that come from? And why did the story change? 4) If you knew it was a fake why did you take it? 5) What is the chain of custody background of the Shelton Helmet? You mentioned you informed an admin of the forum with a name that was left out of the chain of custody but this name was not given openly. 6) Did you trade the Gettysburg Museum a fake creation or real helmet for the Shelton helmet? 7) Why do you believe the Shelton helmet was fake to begin with? Who faked it? What other helmets are fake that that person has produced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted August 22, 2017 Share #984 Posted August 22, 2017 To others, please don't add more questions until these are answered. It will just add more confusion. ...Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarbridge Posted August 22, 2017 Share #985 Posted August 22, 2017 Thanks Kat... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 22, 2017 Share #986 Posted August 22, 2017 Kat - thanks for putting together all the questions in a couple posts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B24AT6 Posted August 22, 2017 Share #987 Posted August 22, 2017 Nicely done Kat,you have calmly sent this topic in the direction it now needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted August 22, 2017 Share #988 Posted August 22, 2017 Thanks! Since I don't collect helmets, I tried to be completely impartial and list all of the questions without prejudice. As I said, I only removed the ones that I considered to be duplicates. ...Kat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugme Posted August 22, 2017 Share #989 Posted August 22, 2017 Thanks! Since I don't collect helmets, I tried to be completely impartial and list all of the questions without prejudice. As I said, I only removed the ones that I considered to be duplicates. ...Kat Thanks, it is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambone Posted August 22, 2017 Share #990 Posted August 22, 2017 Oh yeah, we done got took! We've been saying this day would eventually arrive and now the chickens have come home. We just didn't see it coming from someone whom we all knew and thought well of. We tended to believe it would be some TR faker from a dark underworld basement somewhere in the old Soviet bloc creating Champagne Rune & Normandy Camo debauchery who now tried to peddle his wares in the U.S. helmet field... We were wrong. It is with nothing but embarrassment and shame for German helmet collecting that I claim "expertise" (i.e., cynicism and paranoia) about detecting helmet fakery. However, again, any collectible worth owning is humped. And again, you guys caught it early and are handling it properly. It speaks volumes for the health of your community here and the M1 collecting community in general. Far from being discouraged, if anything, this thread encourages me to want to get back/more involved in US helmet collecting. However, that's from the relative perspective of one who has been involved in German helmet collecting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudgy (V) Posted August 22, 2017 Share #991 Posted August 22, 2017 Can the refunded helmets be scratched/etched down to the medal with the word "repro" in the front. That way, even if it was painted over, you would still see the word. This will save it from being sold in the future for anything other than what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vintageproductions Posted August 22, 2017 Share #992 Posted August 22, 2017 This kind of fits in with this same subject. Last night on CNBC on their show American Greed, there was a whole business about collectibles fraud. This one is about baseball cards but it is worth the time to read and see some same parallels. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/18/that-baseball-card-in-the-attic-can-be-worth-a-fortune-if-you-play-your-cards-right.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL THE PATCH Posted August 22, 2017 Share #993 Posted August 22, 2017 The parallels are so similar it's scary. Good find on that article. I would like to point out one of the questions being summited, asking him he there is anyone on the forum who has knowledge of the fake helmets( let's hope not), if the old saying is true " there's honor among thieves" I don't think he'll rat them out, for lack of a better term. Jmho Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchangelDM Posted August 22, 2017 Share #994 Posted August 22, 2017 I believe the saying is "there is NO honor amongst thieves" Dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Driver Posted August 22, 2017 Share #995 Posted August 22, 2017 One question I don't see that I'd like answered Jamie. I've stayed away from helmets for a while now and have not purchased a helmet from you. We butted heads early on with the 501st medic but other than that I've enjoyed the conversations. I think I've been clear that the history is what matters to me and hate how profit has really hurt the hobby and the history. This is the perfect example. Was it worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt14k Posted August 23, 2017 Share #996 Posted August 23, 2017 This kind of fits in with this same subject. Last night on CNBC on their show American Greed, there was a whole business about collectibles fraud. This one is about baseball cards but it is worth the time to read and see some same parallels. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/18/that-baseball-card-in-the-attic-can-be-worth-a-fortune-if-you-play-your-cards-right.html Thank you for that article. I started collecting sportscards in 1980 and collected til 1993. By 1989 I was selling wax cases to the local dealers. Ultimately the glut of product along with counterfeiters is what killed the market. Bill Mastro I remember advertising his auctions in Sports Collectors Digest. Even as a teen I knew there was something wrong with his auctions. I never won a single one. Back then it was all done by phone bidding. Glad to see they finally caught up to him. I dabbled in collecting again from 2000-2003. At that time they had some pretty cool subsets. Such as pieces of the Korean War Uniforms of Ted Williams, Willy Mays, and others. Looking back now it is a damn shame that they destroyed pieces of history to sell cards. Just imagine what the Splendid Splinters numbers would have been had he not answered the call of duty, twice. Now imagine Colin Kapernick doing the same. I still have a whole lot of sportscards. If they are back in vogue I will have to start selling them, to buy more Rifles, Pistols, and Bayonets. I shoot all my firearms except one rifle and one handgun due to my experience with sportscard collecting. When I started collecting Milsurps I told myself I will not buy firearms and have them sit in a safe like graded cards sat in plastic slabs. PSA, mentioned in the article, started the grading crap. They are also one of the worst companies at it. Professional grading IMO ruined sportscard collecting. Hopefully it never comes to Militaria Collecting. Sorry for the diversion from topic, but many aspects of sportscard collecting does apply to military collecting. Especially the bad actors. Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL THE PATCH Posted August 23, 2017 Share #997 Posted August 23, 2017 I believe the saying is "there is NO honor amongst thieves" Dc You know your right, it didn't sound right when I typed it. I still don't think he will give names if anyone on here is involved. Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anton67 Posted August 23, 2017 Share #998 Posted August 23, 2017 I wonder if we will get any more answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted August 23, 2017 Share #999 Posted August 23, 2017 I wonder if we will get any more answers. I do too. I notice that he hasn't been on here since Monday night. Off the grid on another trip to Africa? I assume some people are in touch with him off the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fstop61 Posted August 23, 2017 Share #1000 Posted August 23, 2017 I do too. I notice that he hasn't been on here since Monday night. Off the grid on another trip to Africa? I assume some people are in touch with him off the forum. With those three posts Monday, he pretty well side-stepped the whole situation...almost like nothing was amiss???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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