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HR 6234 responses from elected officials


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I too am of the mindset that this bill passing - which seems extremely likely - ends future US medal collecting to a great extent.

 

An amendment is highly unlikely, for a myriad of reasons, not the least of which is that it weakens the bill.

 

Not declaring defeat, and I'm a 'fight to the end' type, just stating what I perceive as reality.

 

Talk about proofs of purchase and so forth, are largely aimless. You going to ask a guy at a flea market to write you a receipt?

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This website is not a Bill killer...but it allows us the venue for the Collector community to show what we do...save...research...education. It will continue long after this Bill has been decided. It is to help explain some of our reason for collecting US medals.

It is a start...After All...tomorrow is another day...

Always Buying...Medals...Patches...Wings... Singles or Groups...Top Cash Paid!!!

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Question is the Government going to buy back all these medals from the public that owns them at a fair market value ? What happens to the medals if the Government does not buy them back ? Off to the trash ?

In Memory of Air Corps Technical Sergeant Carl F. Durfee. He died of wounds on 30 December 1944 while serving in the South Pacific. You are not forgotten.

ASMIC member

American Legion member

US Air Force & Air National Guard TAC - MAC

JOHN N. DANIELS ---152nd COMPANY C New York State Infantry--- captured 1864 survivor of Andersonville ---- Great-Great-Great Uncle

Captain Robert L. Hosler, 522nd Fighter/Bomber Sq. 12th Army Air Corp. World War Two P47 Pilot - 1 DFC- 5 Air Medal & 0ne Purple Heart---Uncle

1st Sgt Ann Barry, US Army Air Corp WAC World War Two --ETO --- Aunt

Sgt Willam M. Barry, USMC----Pacific World War Two--Father





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Question is the Government going to buy back all these medals from the public that owns them at a fair market value ? What happens to the medals if the Government does not buy them back ? Off to the trash ?

As we know...a reactionary Bill...poorly thought out.

Always Buying...Medals...Patches...Wings... Singles or Groups...Top Cash Paid!!!

My Website...http://www.purpleheartsnorthcarolina.com/

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Question is the Government going to buy back all these medals from the public that owns them at a fair market value ? What happens to the medals if the Government does not buy them back ? Off to the trash ?

 

The intent of the bill is to try to ensure that there is no market value to the Purple Heart. As for your second question - that is exactly the question I have - what is a family or veteran to do with a medal they no longer wish to keep? It appears that they would have no alternative except to throw it away.

 

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I am betting this bill will pass with no problem. If and when it does, you then become a true "collector". If you have any PHM's in your collection that's where they will stay. No trades or sales to other collectors. If you bought in to the medal collecting hobby assuming you would at some point at least break even you are pretty much screwed. The bigger problem I seem to see here is the wording could include any and all federal issued medals, or am I seeing too much reading and re-reading the bill. If it is the PHM only the hobby itself can survive, if it includes all medals then the hobby is over. As for families having no where to go with their unwanted medals I would expect 95% of them to never hear of the new law if passed and will dispose of them in one way or another. I think the only way we will win this one is IF a legal fight is undertaken to present the facts to the High Court at some point, assuming the bill passes. Let's hope it fail's in committee .

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I am betting this bill will pass with no problem. If and when it does, you then become a true "collector". If you have any PHM's in your collection that's where they will stay. No trades or sales to other collectors. If you bought in to the medal collecting hobby assuming you would at some point at least break even you are pretty much screwed. The bigger problem I seem to see here is the wording could include any and all federal issued medals, or am I seeing too much reading and re-reading the bill. If it is the PHM only the hobby itself can survive, if it includes all medals then the hobby is over. As for families having no where to go with their unwanted medals I would expect 95% of them to never hear of the new law if passed and will dispose of them in one way or another. I think the only way we will win this one is IF a legal fight is undertaken to present the facts to the High Court at some point, assuming the bill passes. Let's hope it fail's in committee .

I wrote a fairly lengthy analysis of this and Robert posted it, I think in the Medals Website thread.

 

The condensed version is that this bill will not affect anything other than the PHM. The language in the bill you are referencing is already existing law, verbatim, in 18USC. They only include it in order to change the paragraph numbering with the addition of the PHM language. Here is the salient part of the other post I wrote:

 

let’s now look at the important language in HR6234 (this is not the entire bill, only the important part):

 

Subsection (a) of section 704 of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

 

“(a) In general.—

“(1) PENALTY.—Whoever knowingly purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt for, manufactures, sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters, or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

 

“(2) LIMITATION ON REGULATIONS.—Regulations referred to in paragraph (1) may not authorize the sale of any Purple Heart awarded to a member of the Armed Forces or former member of the Armed Forces by the Secretary of the military department concerned.”.

 

Note that paragraph (1)PENALTY above is included in the bill, but represents NO CHANGE in language from the existing law already in 18USC 704. It is only included in the bill because, with the addition of paragraph (2)LIMITATION ON REGULATIONS , the “PENALTY” paragraph must be renumbered from being 704(a) to being 704(a)(1) with the LIMITATION becoming 704(a)(2). That PENALTY paragraph is already federal law.

 

In summary, passage of HR6234 would result in the addition of one single sentence to federal law:

 

“(2) LIMITATION ON REGULATIONS.—Regulations referred to in paragraph (1) may not authorize the sale of any Purple Heart awarded to a member of the Armed Forces or former member of the Armed Forces by the Secretary of the military department concerned.”.

 

This single sentence would require the Department of Defense to rewrite all of their applicable regulations to remove any allowance for the sale of Purple Heart medals, which would dramatically affect the historical preservation of these medals by collectors and historians.

 

 

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I wrote a fairly lengthy analysis of this and Robert posted it, I think in the Medals Website thread.

 

The condensed version is that this bill will not affect anything other than the PHM.

 

Yet......is this just a stepping stone to other options in the future? What will next be deemed illegal?

 

What about the Purple Heart ribbons? Is this going down the same hole as the Medal of Hono ribbons?

 

With "feel good" laws its only a matter of time before someone else will come along and feel its evil to sell uniforms or helmets or any military related item as someones valor is being stolen.

 

Then there are the mass majority of the public and even law enforcement that never really understand the law as written or care to find out.

It interpretation is done on the spot at that moment and who is going to have the money or time to pursue a legal case and not just hand it over if told so?

 

Look what has happned on ebay with various medals.They already dont condone the sale and ban or pull auctions of the purple heart or the ribbon and its going to get even more muddied Im thinking fpr related items.

 

The current MOH law really hasnt stopped the sale of the MOH...maybe publicly and at shows but there are many in private hands and if people think they dont get sold keep telling yourself they dont.There are old collections with them in and I guarantee you these dont get thrown away or turned in.

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Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

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This is not just a medal issue, it is much bigger, it's a freedom issue. When the government starts telling you what you can or can not own or sell, you're in BIG trouble.

 

The Constitution should protect us from this sort of thing.

 

Contact the ACLU and the NRA. They know how to protect personal freedom. It will take a big organization with horsepower and money to turn this trend around.

 

 

 

Wharf

In Peace and War, US Merchant Marine. WARNING: Dangerous Cargo. No Visitors, No Smoking, No Open Lights.

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Hello ----I just called my congressman-----talked to his aide about this and said this was just smoke and mirrors what Paul Cook is doing--if he is so concerned about Veterans what is he going to do about the 22 Veterans each day who kill themselves ---the 1000's of homeless Veterans, the VA and the burning of the Flag----These issues are more important. How many Purple Hearts are really stolen and many are really sold by family member who don't care. If he wants a law make it a crime then the family member should be the one who is arrested. Just my two cents.

In Memory of Air Corps Technical Sergeant Carl F. Durfee. He died of wounds on 30 December 1944 while serving in the South Pacific. You are not forgotten.

ASMIC member

American Legion member

US Air Force & Air National Guard TAC - MAC

JOHN N. DANIELS ---152nd COMPANY C New York State Infantry--- captured 1864 survivor of Andersonville ---- Great-Great-Great Uncle

Captain Robert L. Hosler, 522nd Fighter/Bomber Sq. 12th Army Air Corp. World War Two P47 Pilot - 1 DFC- 5 Air Medal & 0ne Purple Heart---Uncle

1st Sgt Ann Barry, US Army Air Corp WAC World War Two --ETO --- Aunt

Sgt Willam M. Barry, USMC----Pacific World War Two--Father





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Yet......is this just a stepping stone to other options in the future? What will next be deemed illegal?

 

What about the Purple Heart ribbons? Is this going down the same hole as the Medal of Honor ribbons?

 

 

 

That'll be interesting if it happens. I have one of each in my collection. Oops.

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Hello ----I just called my congressman-----talked to his aide about this and said this was just smoke and mirrors what Paul Cook is doing--if he is so concerned about Veterans what is he going to do about the 22 Veterans each day who kill themselves ---the 1000's of homeless Veterans, the VA and the burning of the Flag----These issues are more important. How many Purple Hearts are really stolen and many are really sold by family member who don't care. If he wants a law make it a crime then the family member should be the one who is arrested. Just my two cents.

 

 

As I stated before...Bills like this are just frosting.Easy to pass,easy to spread and give the appearance these clowns are doing their jobs when the real issues are not addressed and by passing bills that have no substance or real benifit to those in need the appearance of alls moving forward and accompishments are being made in Washington then they dont have to address the real issues but throw money at meaningless legislation.

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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That'll be interesting if it happens. I have one of each in my collection. Oops.

 

I believe this not only includes ribbons but the certificates that have the image of the Purple Heart.

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" We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm. "

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He has even helped bring about a bill - The Private Corrado Piccoli Purple Heart Preservation Act. It does not ban anyone from owning such medals, just from profiting from their sale.

 

The idea has dismayed many collectors, who fear the ban could drive the trade underground or abroad and erode public knowledge of military history.

 

But Fike doesn't buy it. "Some of them will say, 'We want to preserve history, we're not here to make a profit.' But if you buy a medal for $50 and then find out the man fought at Iwo Jima and you turn around and sell it for $750, you're making a profit," he argues.

 

 

Even when he knows the soldier's family sold the medal, Purple Hearts Reunited still "rescues" it, he says, "because we still don't believe that the medal should be in somebody's private collection".

 

Sometimes he sees a medal in a collection online, finds the family it belongs to, then asks the collector to sell it to him for whatever they paid for it, so that he can return it.

 

But many collectors won't deal with Fike directly, and he now has to rely on intermediaries. His "rescue team" are continually buying medals from online auction sites - last year alone they spent $50,000 (£40,000) on 125 medals. The average posthumous Purple Heart medal on the open market goes for about $300 (£240), but if it has some historical significance it could go for thousands.

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I don't fault Fike for his passion, I wish him best of luck in his effort....but...

 

"The idea has dismayed many collectors, who fear the ban could drive the trade underground or abroad and erode public knowledge of military history"

 

...this is going to happen unfortunately because of this bill...Items will leave the country...and the market that his team is currently acquiring medals from to return will be gone...

 

Pete

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!!!!! Wanted!!!!!!!

USMC Chosin Reservoir Medal Groups

Cross Groupings: Distinguished Service Cross, Navy Cross, and Distinguished Flying Cross Medal Groups
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I had a email exchange with Major Fike a couple weeks ago ,I will not post his part but this is a excerpt of my response to him...

 

 

The proposed bill you have a part, labels us Collectors and Dealers as these horrible "Profiteers " and basically as your law reads, just short of being criminals.

 

The Collector and Dealer community save more US Medals than any other entities in this country.We care, honor and respect these Military personnel that sacrificed the comfort of home and hearth...the bosom of their families, for our Liberties . This proposed bill that you are so intergral, is a insult to us all.

If your proposed bill passes it will effectively do the same as the Medal of Honor law. The Purple Heart will be driven to overseas markets...to be bought - sold or traded in foreign lands.There will be no chance for Americans to honor their own heritage...unless they vacation in Europe .

But honestly . ..I would be arrested if it meant buying a Purple Heart instead of letting it getting thrown in the trash and hauled to the landfill.

Always Buying...Medals...Patches...Wings... Singles or Groups...Top Cash Paid!!!

My Website...http://www.purpleheartsnorthcarolina.com/

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I think he likely started with a honorable idea but has since decided he likes all the personal attention this brings and now he has embarked on a crusade to thwart evil collectors. His over blown ego and high opinion of himself wont let him see anything but evil profiteers and he believes only he can solve this "problem". Only trouble is...there is no problem that needs solving.

As has been stated before, collectors could be his best ally in returning truly stolen medals, etc. but has chosen instead to name call and vilify us. I wouldn't personally give this man the time of day.

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I was just thinking. Has anyone told him he will be out of the business himself of finding, buying, and returning Purple Hearts to the families very soon if this passes. When I read the bill it doesn't make him or his organization an exception does it? So what is his next move?

Maybe he didn't think this part through either.

 

Jeff

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I was just thinking. Has anyone told him he will be out of the business himself of finding, buying, and returning Purple Hearts to the families very soon if this passes. When I read the bill it doesn't make him or his organization an exception does it? So what is his next move?

Maybe he didn't think this part through either.

 

Jeff

Then everyone can give them to PHR...as we know there are more negatives than positives in this bill...not much thought into the overall results.

Always Buying...Medals...Patches...Wings... Singles or Groups...Top Cash Paid!!!

My Website...http://www.purpleheartsnorthcarolina.com/

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Would anyone like to contact the BBC journalist and explain the collector side of things? It's pretty clear they only had one source for that article. It's doubtful that they would modify it to include a collector response, but it's worth a shot.

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