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Misc UDT/SEAL insignia.


Spike
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Hi all, Ive just been offered this SEAL Trident. What are peoples thoughts on it, I think its fake. The gold is wearing off on the high points. There are no dashes separating the V 21 N and the back looks soft like its been cast from a real Trident. Thank you for your help, Mark.

 

IMG_4295.PNG.844fe786eb513ea3e5d0cc1cfd3588c3.PNGIMG_4296.PNG.b615f3210e2495f5a2bc987eeabb6d17.PNGIMG_4297.PNG.40257c68047843e8af8c3b752f84e545.PNG

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  • 4 weeks later...
USMarineCorps
On 10/25/2019 at 3:04 AM, Nic said:

Last of the photos. It measures about 2 inches and the clutches are marked "Ballou"? I think.

post-330-0-48530700-1571965485_thumb.jpeg

post-330-0-08187900-1571965493_thumb.jpeg

 

What are your thoughts on these unmarked UDT insignia? I purchased it from a dealer who said he bought up Gemsco's inventory. I have seen 1/20 silver filled Antaya marked trident on Gemsco cards, so I wouldn't be surprised if Gemsco got some of their insignia from other makers and sold them to its customers. It looks a lot like the quoted Vanguard/ Antaya badge in my opinion. 

 

UDTTrident1.jpg

UDTTrident2.jpg

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USMarineCorps


I tried to take a better picture of the above insignia but it's tricky since some parts are polished while others aren't. I was hesitant to consider these unmarked ones original since I've heard of insignia being made for collectors using original dies. However, this one appears to be older and the finishing is consistent with the Vanguard/ Antaya made piece above. Thoughts?

 

Trident1.jpg

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Here some current SEAL/SWCC rates and misc. insignia.  The trident and para wings are bad reproductions but the 2 SWCC badges are legit, old styles.  

213B705B-ED2D-4304-B3EA-8A80BBCB20A8.jpeg

10540C8E-7F9F-45BE-B2EC-548E1BC3C2AD.jpeg

9DE33701-C12E-405E-9E14-CF0670E8B03A.jpeg

25E3F53E-C2A4-49E3-97F3-68B47709DFB6.jpeg

A54205B7-8C64-45C8-BE91-FB712C993CD6.jpeg

07C39C14-730F-4B54-8AE1-D3174C0B41AA.jpeg

D6A06D79-83E0-496D-9557-58958E6089DF.jpeg

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USMarineCorps
On 10/5/2020 at 5:39 PM, USMarineCorps said:


I tried to take a better picture of the above insignia but it's tricky since some parts are polished while others aren't. I was hesitant to consider these unmarked ones original since I've heard of insignia being made for collectors using original dies. However, this one appears to be older and the finishing is consistent with the Vanguard/ Antaya made piece above. Thoughts?

 

Trident1.jpg

 

Still looking for thoughts on the above insignia. To me it looks like a period, unmarked Vanguard example, but I was told that unmarked pieces were made for collectors using original dies.

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On 10/8/2020 at 1:49 AM, USMarineCorps said:

 

Still looking for thoughts on the above insignia. To me it looks like a period, unmarked Vanguard example, but I was told that unmarked pieces were made for collectors using original dies.

Just my opinion because I don't know for sure but I've never trusted these unmarked badges that are identical to the period originals.  All of the period originals look as if they all came from the same die the only difference being what look like hand stamped hallmarks.  I say hand stamped because in some instances the hallmarks aren't in the same places and are slightly off so if it was stamped by a machine you would expect consistency.  So I have a suspicion that of the three insignia companies (Antaya, NS Meyer & Vanguard) that produced the original series of badges only one was in possession of the die and made Seal Team & UDT insignia for themselves and the other two companies.  I don't remember the exact decade but I only started seeing these unmarked badges in the late 1980s or 1990s.  So far I have only come across unmarked UDT badges as I have never seen an unmarked Seal Trident that matches those produced in circa 1972.  So one of two things could have happened in my opinion.  Either there were some left over stocks of UDT badges lying around in a box for years that were not hallmarked and someone released them into the market or they are restrikes.

 

 

Fake UDT Gold (1).jpg

Fake UDT Gold (2).jpg

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37 minutes ago, digi-shots said:

Here’s a small grouping... a coupe of Tridents, name tapes and infrared patches.

 

F8D3FD6A-80F4-47E1-98A7-D5AB6DE5190B.jpeg

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I've seen these with merrowed edges which I believe is an earlier version of this Trident for wear on DCUs.  A few years ago someone in Hong Kong made a very good copy of the spice brown thread machine embroidered on desert tan merrowed edged Trident patch.   I've seen this fake Trident sewn on DCU jackets which indicates a put together uniform.

 

 

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  • 4 months later...
Basic Rifleman

First off, this particular thread has been a great help to me in my collecting journey. That said, I'd like to add a recent find that may further help this discussion. I'm aware this is not rock-solid evidence either way, but I recently purchased these two UDT/Seal badges together in a Navy estate. The previous discussions with regard to these UDT Badges with the drilled holes, and the idea they were made in the 1980's seems even more likely now that it was paired with a Lordship Industries badge with a known "L.I.G.I." hallmark dating from 1973 to 1985. Again, I know this is far from definitive, I just thought it might be helpful in establishing further evidence to their approximate manufacture date. 

 

Semper Fi,

Tom

seal1.jpg

seal2.jpg

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