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I think the jumper dates from the early 70s. He was a career UDT guy that never served in a SEAL team. He retired in 1975 and entered the Navy in 1948. The dark item is a wool Navy sweater. I also have a box of his wash/work khakis (he eventually became a CPO). I've noted a variety of diving sleeve insignia worn by UDT/SEAL members of the era. SD stands for SCUBA Diver, 2 = 2nd Class Diver and S = Salvage Diver. I actually think the "UDT" version may have been somewhat unofficial, although I am not sure about that...Spike may know

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Also, to expound on your question; once upon a time there was a very close, interconnected relationship between the Navy UDT/SEAL community and the Navy diving and EOD communities. SEALs occasionally went through the higher levels of fleet diver qualification and also became EOD qualified. Some even did tours in those units. Even today, SEALs are considered Navy divers (Combat Swimmer is the exact category) and are part of the broader Navy diving community. The actual cross-pollenation between units that used to occur is a thing of the past though...

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Any idea about these? seal.jpg

 

I would say they are Pakistani made as well.

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Kadet, thanks for the breakdown on various diver/udt/combat swimmer units.

 

Here are the hard hat ratings that I have. I always thought the the SD was Salvage Diver... I'll have to keep my eye out for a SD - scuba diver.

 

Also here's a couple of UDT badges. The silver one on the Vanguard card I know is good, but not really sure about the gold ones - only one of the smaller gold is stamped.

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post-4361-0-72263700-1484421048_thumb.jpg

post-4361-0-17759000-1484421342_thumb.jpg

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Thanks and nice items! I haven't really studied the metal UDT insignia thoroughly, but was fortunate to pick up one of the early Antaya tridents last year. I'm looking for a full sized silver trident and full sized UDT badges.

 

On your diver patches...I suspect that the green ones may be from the 80s. Tough to say though.

I will pay top dollar for original WWII items pertaining to:

 

OSS

OSS Maritime Unit

NCDU

UDT

Scouts and Raiders

FSSF

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Most UDTs and all SEALs wore US Army jump wings during Vietnam, mainly because they didn't have enough jumps to qualify for the USMC/Navy jump wings. 5 jumps for Army, 10 for USMC/Navy wings. I don't know all the actual qualifying facts, haven't really researched it fully to be honest. Almost all the shirts I have have Army wings. I do have some shirts with USMC/Navy wings, mostly UDT. During the VN years, all SEALs and most UDT's on the West Coast went Ft Benning for jump training then maybe off to SERE school then pre-deployment training. You tend to see USMC/Navy jump wings on older Team guys and a lot of East Coast guys as well.

This is an interesting point that I have wondered about as well. As Spike stated, UDT/SEAL personnel of the era attended the Army airborne COI at Fort Benning, leaving with silver wings and the requisite 5 jumps. I find it hard to believe that the silver wings were worn because the owners hadn't done the additional 5 jumps needed for gold wings though. I know in the more modern era, those additional jumps were conducted within several months of reporting to a team. Nobody wanted to be seen wearing the Army wings. I think it more likely had to do with jump pay and jump billets in the various UDT/SEAL units. In the VN era I suspect that only certain billets within the teams were coded for jumping, and the rules about that state that you can only qualify for gold wings when serving in a paid jump billet. In the modern era, jumping became part of the SEAL enlisted and officer designators, which essentially means that you are expected to maintain your quals and receive the appropriate pay regardless of your billet assignment. Just speculation though. I will ask around about it...

I will pay top dollar for original WWII items pertaining to:

 

OSS

OSS Maritime Unit

NCDU

UDT

Scouts and Raiders

FSSF

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Kadet and Spike, thanks for the follow up info on the jump wings. Do you know if jumps with the US Navy Parachute Team(s) count towards the "10" ?

 

I did read somewhere that the large USMC/Navy "gold" wings were first authorized in 1963 (?). I assume the large cloth wing followed suit. This is most likely the case in the Cmdr. BOYD shirt that I posted.. early lightweight NXSX shirt having the small Army type jump wing. The jump wing appears to be theater made. His other shirt is a re-purposed USMC shirt with Trident. My guess is the lightweight shirt was sewn up before the formation of the SEAL teams and/or authorization of the Trident.

 

I don't want to hijack this thread on "shoulder sleeve insignia & patches" but I posted a photo of a USN Master CPO radioman wearing the larger "gold wings". The photo is dated 1967. He served in DaNang 1965-66. To my knowledge this veteran was neither UDT nor SEAL. I was surprised to see the gold wings in his photo. Do you think this is unusual?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

 

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By the time someone is selected for the jump team, they have hundreds if not thousands of jumps. 10 jumps is a very basic qualification. The gold Navy wings actually go back to the WWII era. WWII UDT personnel were not parachute qualified. Experimentation with parachuting came about after the war in the UDTs, and really took hold with the creation of the SEAL teams. In WWII and after, the gold wings were worn primarily by riggers who were jump qualified. The Navy also had its own jump school in Lakehurst NJ during this era, and some UDT personnel were trained there vice Fort Benning.

I will pay top dollar for original WWII items pertaining to:

 

OSS

OSS Maritime Unit

NCDU

UDT

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FSSF

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Yes...as were/are Corpsmen that serve w/ USMC recon, and the Navy personnel assigned to ANGLICO units. A lot of possibilities for the gold jump wings actually

I will pay top dollar for original WWII items pertaining to:

 

OSS

OSS Maritime Unit

NCDU

UDT

Scouts and Raiders

FSSF

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Don't forget that the Beach Jumpers were also jump qualified and were members of the Chuting Stars. I did check with the Beach Jumpers and no one responded to Master Chief Lewis being a member.

 

Bearmon, thanks for checking! Did you check his full name...? Robert Louis MILLER? I'm still researching him but haven't had much success yet.

 

Kadet, thanks for the info... I was aware of the Lakehurst, NJ location... I believe the East Coast Navy Parachuting Team (aka Chuting Stars) trained there and also

Pensacola, Fl.

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Bearmon, thanks for checking! Did you check his full name...? Robert Louis MILLER? I'm still researching him but haven't had much success yet.

 

Kadet, thanks for the info... I was aware of the Lakehurst, NJ location... I believe the East Coast Navy Parachuting Team (aka Chuting Stars) trained there and also

Pensacola, Fl.

I checked his full name out, my mistake in the post above.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here are a couple of UDU patches... Underwater Demolition Unit Two.

 

I posted the top two quite a while ago in another thread. They came from a Korean War UDT veteran. They might be "reunion" patches (?)

 

Not long ago, I picked up another one... almost identical to the top two. You can see a slight variation in the design.

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  • 8 months later...

Curious what the thoughts are about this? I picked it up in a small group that included an original Vanguard mini silver version. Real, fake or older re strike? I tend to think the latter, but want to confirm before it goes in the junk box. I paid next to nothing for the group, and was happy to get the silver version so it won't hurt my feelings if this one is a clunker!

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I will pay top dollar for original WWII items pertaining to:

 

OSS

OSS Maritime Unit

NCDU

UDT

Scouts and Raiders

FSSF

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