Is this poncho a WWI or WWII poncho?

[doughboywwi]

I bought this poncho recently from Lorraine, France. It was listed as a WWI American poncho. The poncho is not stiff at all, not much wear and tear. It has the feeling of the American C.E.M. masks' material. Finally, it smells like WWI American rubberized items.
I paid about $80.00 for it to get here all the way from Lorraine. I am hoping it is a WWI poncho, as that's what I collect. Can anyone give me some information on it? Any help is greatly appreciated.
Here are some photographs.

[doughboywwi]

[doughboywwi]

[doughboywwi]

[doughboywwi]

[doughboywwi]

[Ronnie]

Pre WWII I think. Like maybe used in the 1930's.

Ronnie

[11b inf]

i'm pretty sure this item is not American, it looks like a British or Canadian ground sheet /rain cape ww1 or ww2...U.S. ponchos aren't cut like that..i want to say mid ww2 as I don't see brass grommets in the cut eyelet holes around the rain cape /ground sheet ,this was a cost saving measure and also used to save brass and yes they were made of rubberized canvas..to be honest some American soldiers in ww2 were issued the British ground sheet/rain cape in the ETO to make up for shortages of the issued rain coat used in both world wars..vince g. 11B Inf.

[doyler]

Show the buttons close up.

[doughboywwi]

Show the buttons close up.

 

[world war I nerd]

WW I British Ground Sheet/Poncho ... These may have been used by some American Doughboys, especially those serving with the II Army Corps, which was under British command, and often supplied with British clothing & equipment.

 

I've no idea how the WW II version of this garment differed from its WW I counterpart.

[world war I nerd]

Another shot of the WW I British Ground Sheet/Poncho ... photos courtesy of the Imperial War Museum

 

This particular example features black composite buttons.

[doyler]

Thanks for posting the buttons.They look early and agree with WW1 nerd

[doughboywwi]

Thanks!! I really appreciate the information!
Thank you all!

[doyler]

Any WW1 rain gear is incredibly rare in my opinion.It just didnt survive

[world war I nerd]

I concur with doyler. If that does turn out to be a WW I British groundsheet/poncho it's probably worth big bucks ... err, I mean English pounds in the UK

 

I'm not positive, but I think that the British Army issued two patterns of the groundsheet during the war.

[doughboywwi]

I concur with doyler. If that does turn out to be a WW I British groundsheet/poncho it's probably worth big bucks ... err, I mean English pounds in the UK

 

I'm not positive, but I think that the British Army issued two patterns of the groundsheet during the war.

 

Do you know of any British forums that would aid in its identification?

 

 

[world war I nerd]

Great War Forum ... this forum seems to specialize in British militaria from the Great War:

 

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php

[RustyCanteen]

I meant to post on this the other day, but didn't have the time. These normally had the manufacturer's name or logo stamped in one corner (in ink), but they apparently faded with use. Yours seems to have the plain (raw) holes around the edges, rather than the grommets. I'm not sure, but you might have a WWII era groundsheet since it lacks the grommets.

 

The Great War Forum is a good resource for UK/Commonwealth uniforms and equipment of WWI, however sadly one of their most active collectors passed away about a year ago I think.

 

For future reference, although the item in question isn't US issue, there is a good chance that US troops had access to these, and therefore it falls under the exemptions of forum rules prohibiting non-US items and will be allowed.

[doughboywwi]

Great War Forum ... this forum seems to specialize in British militaria from the Great War:

 

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php

 

 

I meant to post on this the other day, but didn't have the time. These normally had the manufacturer's name or logo stamped in one corner (in ink), but they apparently faded with use. Yours seems to have the plain (raw) holes around the edges, rather than the grommets. I'm not sure, but you might have a WWII era groundsheet since it lacks the grommets.

 

The Great War Forum is a good resource for UK/Commonwealth uniforms and equipment of WWI, however sadly one of their most active collectors passed away about a year ago I think.

 

For future reference, although the item in question isn't US issue, there is a good chance that US troops had access to these, and therefore it falls under the exemptions of forum rules prohibiting non-US items and will be allowed.

Ok, thank you all for your help! Much appreciated.

[world war I nerd]

Not sure if this illustration of the "Sheets, Ground, MK VII", which was issued "late in the war" to replace the "Sheets, Ground, MK V", without a collar, by Mike Chappell the illustrator, author & noted expert on British Army uniforms from both World Wars will help much, but it does show a slightly different style of button (as does the groundsheet from the Imperial War Museum).

 

The illustration is from the Osprey Men-At-Arms series No. 182, "British Battle Insignia (1): 1914-18"

 

The enlarged image shown at the top of the inset shows dark brown(?) composite, "tin plate" style buttons. The button used on the groundsheet (inset, bottom row, left) which started this thread is khaki or olive drab and flat, and the button used on the Imperial War Museum's groundsheet is also of the tin plate style, but it appears to be black.

 

Not sure if the different button styles are relevant to the WW I or WW II periods. I'm only pointing out the difference as it may help to date the groundsheet in question.

[doughboywwi]

Not sure if this illustration of the "Sheets, Ground, MK VII", which was issued "late in the war" to replace the "Sheets, Ground, MK V", without a collar, by Mike Chappell the illustrator, author & noted expert on British Army uniforms from both World Wars will help much, but it does show a slightly different style of button (as does the groundsheet from the Imperial War Museum).

 

The illustration is from the Osprey Men-At-Arms series No. 182, "British Battle Insignia (1): 1914-18"

 

The enlarged image shown at the top of the inset shows dark brown(?) composite, "tin plate" style buttons. The button used on the groundsheet (inset, bottom row, left) which started this thread is khaki or olive drab and flat, and the button used on the Imperial War Museum's groundsheet is also of the tin plate style, but it appears to be black.

 

Not sure if the different button styles are relevant to the WW I or WW II periods. I'm only pointing out the difference as it may help to date the groundsheet in question.

 

That's definitely a possibility, thanks! I talked to the folks at the Invisionzone Great War forum, and they said that it was indeed a WWII one. Here is the link to that thread. I will likely just sell it or replace the buttons with zinc ones and use it in my reenacting for WWI.

 

Thanks for yours (and everybody elses) help!

[world war I nerd]

I'm glad that you along with the assistance of the members of Great war Forum solved the mystery ... also thanks for posting the link to the British discussion.