warguy Posted November 11, 2016 Share #1 Posted November 11, 2016 This is a new acquisition from the Tempe military show last weekend. Thanks go out to fellow forum member Mason Lurvey and Larry Stewart for getting this one to me. I think these are pretty darn un-common and in fact I was unable to find any reference online. After hours of searching, I found some pics of a gorgeous one once in Dennis Jacksons collection and will include those photos for comparison. The one I picked up meets all of the regs. Forest green wool, with flap side pockets, wind flap under the collar for turn up. It is stamped inside with the commonly seen USMC Quartermaster stamp but I cannot make out the date below that. It also has a small slit on the side that has been tailored in for the sword hanger (the sword belt was worn under this coat and hanger came through the slit). It is in-named but is size stamped again as typical inside (4L). It has a mohair green (more of a light tan) cuff braid on the sleeve. This color matches almost exact the quarter foil on top of my WWI service officers bell crown.It is also interesting to note that the officers version do not have the pointed cuffs like the EM's greatcoat. I was glad to acquire this as again, I don't recall ever seeing another for sale. It is un-named. I do have a question....after reviewing the 1912 Marine uniform regs, it is apparent that the coat shown in Dennis Jackson collection is a Lieutenant grade. You can see the extra loops and added detail. My braid is far simpler. There is no mention I can find in the regs describing a second Lieutenants rank. I am guessing that is what I have here, but would love to hear from others. Maybe Alec can weigh in? And oh yeah Alec, when is volume two coming out? Thanks for looking, I am very happy to have found one of these. Here are pics of my coat. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share #2 Posted November 11, 2016 Here are the pics I found of the gorgeous coat previosuly in the Dennis Jackson collection Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted November 11, 2016 Author Share #3 Posted November 11, 2016 Another of the Jackson coat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMaddoxUSMC Posted November 12, 2016 Share #4 Posted November 12, 2016 That thing is incredible! I don't think I've seen one of these before! I am trying to get an early enlisted version of this coat still... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted November 12, 2016 Share #5 Posted November 12, 2016 According to the 1912 USMC & Navy uniform regulations updated to May of 1917, which can be found online at the below link, the cuff braid on the overcoat appears to be that of a warrant officer: https://archive.org/details/usmarineuni00unitrich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted November 12, 2016 Fantastic nerd I can always count on you! So the Marines as I understand it did not have a warrant officer position in WWI but did have the gunner position which was essentially the same back then. The insignia was a flaming bomb. So the new question is would a flaming bomb be placed on the epaulette of this coat and if so, gold or bronze? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share #7 Posted November 12, 2016 A friend on the forum shared an article that illustrates the Marines created the warrant officer position in 1916, which might be part of why the uniform regs were updated in 1917. I know this coat was changed and the sleeve braid dropped in 1922. Looks like the warrant officer position during the time period of this coat consisted of the Marine gunner, flaming bomb insignia and the Quartermaster, with their own distinctive insignia. I am guessing the bronze flaming bomb worn on the service tunic would have been what was worn on the epaulette of this cost, but would love to hear from others on that point. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskjl Posted November 12, 2016 Share #8 Posted November 12, 2016 I think that is a lieutenant braid if it were 2nd lt it wouldn't have the curly bit at the bottom and if it were capt it would have an additional bunch round bits on the boarder of the wide ribbon. I know there are pics in other posts on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dskjl Posted November 12, 2016 Share #9 Posted November 12, 2016 http://militaria19191938.org/wp-content/photos/Amazing-1927-US-Marine-Corps-Vintage-Officer-s-ID-d-Mess-Dress-Blue-Uniform-01-oom.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted November 12, 2016 Share #10 Posted November 12, 2016 Kevin, according to the 1917 updated uniform regulations (pages 33 & 60), your assumption regarding the flaming bomb & quartermaster for warrant officers insignia is correct ... the same size insignia (in bronze) was to be worn on the shoulder strap of both the winter field coat and the overcoat. Sorry, I neglected to mention that your coat is an incredible find. It's the first warrant officer's overcoat that I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
world war I nerd Posted November 12, 2016 Share #11 Posted November 12, 2016 Also, dskjl is right the overcoat cuff brain shown in post number 3 is the rank of a 1st lieutenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted November 12, 2016 Author Share #12 Posted November 12, 2016 I want to thank you guys very much for the information and compliments. It just so happens that I have a bronze set of warrant officers/marine gunners flaming bombs that just found a new home. Thank you again, now to get it on a coat form. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collector .45 Posted November 12, 2016 Share #13 Posted November 12, 2016 That is a stunning coat! - Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchbuff Posted November 12, 2016 Share #14 Posted November 12, 2016 Gorgeous overcoat Kevin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_hinch Posted November 13, 2016 Share #15 Posted November 13, 2016 That is beyond cool Kevin! Congrats! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share #16 Posted November 13, 2016 Thank you guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMaddoxUSMC Posted November 13, 2016 Share #17 Posted November 13, 2016 Here is an old photo in my archive that I saved from WorthPoint of a 2ndLt coat (sorry, I know it's small): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warguy Posted November 13, 2016 Author Share #18 Posted November 13, 2016 Nice picture Maddox. I had a heck of a time finding ny photos on the www of these. Thanks for sharing. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtMaddoxUSMC Posted November 13, 2016 Share #19 Posted November 13, 2016 And oh yeah Alec, when is volume two coming out? Yeah Alec! We want Volume two! We want Volume two! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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