12 O Clock High

[FightenIrish35]

Well I just watched the movie 12 O CLOCK HIGH for the first time and I must say was pretty impressed. Has Original footage of Battling Luftwaffe in WW2. If you have not seen it,BUY IT its a must have in the collectiion!!!!!

[Teamski]

Yep, a true classic!

 

-Ski

[IMPERIAL QUEST]

The best WWII aviation classic ever in my opinion. I bought the VHS version many years ago...the tape finally broke after 100+ late night week end viewings . Now I own the DVD version, hopefully, this format will endure my perpetual viewing obsession with this fantastic movie.

[BEAST]

The 12 0'clock high TV series wasn't too bad either.

 

Command Decision is also up there with great aviation movies! Interesting portrayal of the politics of the war.

[tredhed2]

Well I just watched the movie 12 O CLOCK HIGH for the first time and I must say was pretty impressed. Has Original footage of Battling Luftwaffe in WW2. If you have not seen it,BUY IT its a must have in the collectiion!!!!!

 

*&%$#! I'm old- I saw it in for the first time in a movie theatre on its original release...

[nuke41]

Super movie, people forget the air war and how deadly it was, being a heavy bomber crewman until well into 1944 was a death sentence, best they could hope for was to end up as a POW. The Army Air Corps lost more Captains in WWII than the Marines lost all ranks combined.

[gwb123]

Here's a factoid for you about 12 O'Clock High... I have it on good authority that the USAF was impressed enough the film that they actually used if for their officer training during the 1970's. It does a very good job of showing the conflicts that a commander is faced with, and how the stress can get to the best of men.

[willysmb44]

Here's a factoid for you about 12 O'Clock High... I have it on good authority that the USAF was impressed enough the film that they actually used if for their officer training during the 1970's. It does a very good job of showing the conflicts that a commander is faced with, and how the stress can get to the best of men.

I can't speak for the USAF, but I know for sure it's used by the Army. I had to sit through selected parts of it in ROTC. It bugged me because they wouldn't let us watch the whole thing and I'd seen it dozens of times already. I got the other cadets together days later and we watched the whole thing.

It had many things going it.

First, plenty of vets were still in the USAF at the time, and the writers of the novel were on the set to say, "Nope, that's not right." They also had damned good actors!

Then, there's that crash... The movie company bought a B-17 drone controller to belly land for the film. Several of the AF pilots at Eglin AFB at the time begged to do that belly landing, but in the end the AF wouldn't let them do it. The B-17 belly landing was done in real life by stunt pilot Paul Mantz for a nice chunk of change. He took off and did the landing solo. He went through a tent that the night before had a giant steel rod holding it up, and that imbedded itself inboard of the #3 engine!

The airfield set was the modern day Duke Field (home of a reserve AC-130 unit) and the landing and flying scenes were out of Ozark Field, now part of Ft Rucker. I flew into the area just north of Duke Field in 1997 in a B-17, and we buzzed "Archbury" in the process! At that time, there was still one of the WW2 buildings built there for the movie, still standing!

I also know a revivial of the TV series was planned for British TV in the 90s but it never came to pass. I was given the nametape made for the "Jesse Bishop" character by a guy I knew who worked on the initial props for the show.

[nuke41]

Here's a factoid for you about 12 O'Clock High... I have it on good authority that the USAF was impressed enough the film that they actually used if for their officer training during the 1970's. It does a very good job of showing the conflicts that a commander is faced with, and how the stress can get to the best of men.

 

They used it when I was at squadron officers school back in the late 80s.

[Steindaddie]

Classic movie ! Interesting sidebar: Gregory Peck's character was based on the very real General Frank Armstrong, and he and Peck became good friends after the movie.

[FightenIrish35]

what i really enjoyed about this movie is that the clips they used of actual Gunners was just fascinating to see how focused they were to score hits on the enemy

[El Bibliotecario]

This is certainly one of the handful of films that outlasts its era based on its dramatic excellence. I suspect anyone who enjoyed it would also enjoy COMMAND DECISION with Clark Gable and Walter Pigeon.

 

My special memory of this film dates back four decades when I was taking a class in literary criticism. The instructor was discussing Randall Jarrell's poem, THE DEATH OF THE BALL TURRET GUNNER--and it transpired that the instructor and I were the only two people in class who knew what a ball turret was. As an affectionado of WW3 movies I was amazed--*laff*--and for the rest of the semester the instructor, whom I'd previously thought of as a literary prig--and I were great pals.

[willysmb44]

FYI, when I was at the 91st BG reunion in 2002, they were raffling off a DVD player and it came with a DVD of this film. I got a chuckle out of that and asked several of the vets what they thought of the movie. They refused to even discuss the 1990 "Memphis Belle" movie but raved on this one. One vet said it best:

"When people ask me what it was like, I tell to go rent that movie and quit pestering me!"

[Salvage Sailor]

Well I just watched the movie 12 O CLOCK HIGH for the first time and I must say was pretty impressed. Has Original footage of Battling Luftwaffe in WW2. If you have not seen it,BUY IT its a must have in the collectiion!!!!!

 

Whereas in the 1960's TV show they're constantly wearing 50 star US flags on their A-2 jackets

[gwb123]

Whereas in the 1960's TV show they're constantly wearing 50 star US flags on their A-2 jackets

 

 

Come on, now! For years that is as close as this kid got to a real B-17!

 

By the way, if you have ever had the chance to get inside of a real B-17, they are a lot smaller on the inside than the Hollywood movies would lead you to believe. I stood between the waist gunner positions and I was surpised how narrow and crowded it was. And then I imagined German machine gun bullets ripping through each side with no place to hide.... you had to be crazy to fly in one of those things! I'll stick to the ground, thank you.

[El Bibliotecario]

Come on, now! For years that is as close as this kid got to a real B-17!

 

By the way, if you have ever had the chance to get inside of a real B-17, they are a lot smaller on the inside than the Hollywood movies would lead you to believe. I stood between the waist gunner positions and I was surpised how narrow and crowded it was. ..

 

Whenever I see WW2 aircraft, including the B17, in static displays including more modern aircraft, I'm struck by how small they are by modern standards.

 

Coincidentally I just sold a couple shirts belonging to a WW2 USAAF officer which I've had from childhood, having acquired them at age 12 or 13. Even at that age the shirts fit me. Could it be that people have gotten bigger since WW2? I know this is true if one looks at 18th and 19th century uniforms and costume--they are all very small by modern standards.

[bigredone]

The Planes of Fame Museum in Diamond Bar, California used to have a flying fortress fusilage that you could walk through. Don't know which planes but they did offer rides.

 

John

 

Come on, now! For years that is as close as this kid got to a real B-17!

 

By the way, if you have ever had the chance to get inside of a real B-17, they are a lot smaller on the inside than the Hollywood movies would lead you to believe. I stood between the waist gunner positions and I was surpised how narrow and crowded it was. And then I imagined German machine gun bullets ripping through each side with no place to hide.... you had to be crazy to fly in one of those things! I'll stick to the ground, thank you.

[warroom1]

Super movie, people forget the air war and how deadly it was, being a heavy bomber crewman until well into 1944 was a death sentence, best they could hope for was to end up as a POW. The Army Air Corps lost more Captains in WWII than the Marines lost all ranks combined.

do you mean crews ? or captains

[nuke41]

do you mean crews ? or captains

 

Captains, which was the most common rank for officer flyers. The AF Museum used to have that little factoid posted somewhere. Total KIA/MIA losses: AAF 88,119 (from United States Dept. of the Army, Army Battle Casualties and Non Battle Deaths in World War II.), USMC 24,511. And something else that gets overlooked, the highest percentage of KIA for any US service was the US Merchant Marines. And what was the last book or war movie made about those poor guys?

[Jim Baker]

One of my all time favorites, after watching this movie, I knew someday I would fly in a B-17. This summer I did.

 

 

[doyler]

I agree Twelve O'Clock High is one of the all time classics and a must have for any video/DVD collection or 8th AF collector.I also like watching the War Lover(1962).a classic Steve McQueen movie.Also starring a very young Robert Wagner.

 

RON

[Steindaddie]

The War Lover is an outstanding movie as well. Plenty of great B-17 footage including the three flyable one's they used for the filming. It's based on the 1959 novel of the same name from John Hersey, although the names in the movie don't match those found in the book. Martin Caiden, one of those who flew the B-17's to the UK for the movie, wrote a great book about that adventure - Everything But The Flak

[coastie]

In 1980 I attended a leadership school for senior Petty Officers and this movie was shown towards the end and we had to pick out what were the "Leadership styles" shown in the movie. Surprisely it was all there. That was the first time I had ever seen the movie as an adult (remember it as a kid but only paid attention to the cool combat footage). Now I watch it at least every other year since.

 

Someone earlier mentioned books or movies about the Merchant Marine and lack there of. Books: Philip McCutchan "Convoy" series is a pretty good series although geared for the British Merchant Marine, it covers the same ground(ocean) the USMS did. Movie: "The Long Voyage Home" Directed by John Ford, with John Wayne covered the fear and danger that a regular Mechant Seaman had to endure.

 

A first rate convoy movie would be ground that hasn't really been tapped into yet - Film it on the SS Jeremiah O'brien or the SS John Brown That would make a good set. All they need is a good script, just leave out Ben Affleck, he's been in too many "war movies" already.

 

 

Jim- you took a B17 flight? Well Done!

[willysmb44]

It's amazing how tight a B-17 is inside. It makes a submarine seem spacious. I've had more than one B-17 ride and have, sat in others with the engines running and flown on other WW2 planes as well in full WW2 AAF gear. I know for a fact now that in the movies, they move the inside racks of the bomb bay wider than in real life as you just can't squeeze through there with a parachute on, no matter how thin you are!

They're also really tough to take photos from. The later models are all faired over and there's no open window to get photos from…

Here's a couple of my better B-17 shots. I need to go and scan more of them.