A proposed law banning the sale of Purple Hearts - HR 6234

[mghcal]

It's time to make sure these representatives know that those honoring our wounded and killed in action soldiers are here on this forum! There is a reason many of these medals end up at yard sales or even in the garbage. Your average family member of one of these soldiers doesn't really care about the sacrifice their relative made. Ask yourself this, how many times have you picked up something at a yard sale and asked who it belonged to and where they were wounded and actually got an answer? They don't know because they've forgotten or never bothered to ask their older family members. How many times have you asked about paperwork on a veteran only to have a family member say "we didn't think it was worth anything or that anyone would want it so threw it away". This is why so few PH documents are still around! They were thrown out because they were presumed by the family to have no value, the medal was sold because it was worth something!

 

A Purple Heart on the collectors market is treasured because of the actions of these soldiers, we research and honor these men. How many of those families who have received medals back from Purple Hearts Reunited will be able to even say where a soldier was during the war let alone how he received the medal? If they cared to begin with it wouldn't have been sold. You look at the members of this forum who have spent their own money to research these soldiers and their history, look at the members who have spent thousands of hours going around the country taking photos to publish books about different medals. We are the ones who honor these soldiers. It'd be nice to have a petition to send to these politicians. Since Cook is a veteran it would help to probably have name, rank, and years of service if you're a veteran. Let him know that so many of these "profiteers" are actually service members themselves!

 

How many of you read this and your first thought was of all the medals that will now find their way into the garbage? Like the founder of Purple Hearts Reunited, I am also the descendant of many military family members. Four of my direct grandfathers were killed during the Revolutionary War, several others survived the war. In the War of 1812 my ggg-grandfather was with Metcalf's brigade when the British hit their line full on during the Battle of New Orleans. I have a good dozen relatives that were in the Civil War with a couple killed that I know of. Some of the names of these men were passed down to me through stories my grandfather told about his family. My grandmother's family knew nothing about their ancestors military service and what I know was all found through hundreds of hours of research. I don't even ask my grandmothers family if any of our relatives military items are still around because I know they don't care and it's already long gone.

 

A final thought. My great-grandfathers oldest brother was a young 18 year old kid, I have a photo he had done in a navy uniform with a flintlock rifle. I see that photo and wonder if he would laugh at how foolish he was to want to go off to war? He didn't join the navy and was instead shipped to France and was thrown into the thick of it with the 3rd Infantry Division on the Marne River. He survived that horrific battle but wasn't as fortunate when his company was taking the town of le Charmel on July 25th 1918. If you go to the Aisne-Marne American Cemetery and you walk up the pathway through the neatly laid rows of latin crosses and stars of david with the names of so many heroes you will find 2,037 of those stones will have names and 251 will be blank since they are the unknown. As you reach the top of the hill you'll find a small white chapel and you will walk through the door and look up and read the inscription "THE NAMES RECORDED ON THESE WALLS ARE THOSE OF AMERICAN SOLDIERS WHO FOUGHT IN THIS REGION AND WHO SLEEP IN UNKNOWN GRAVES", inside the chapel you will find the name of Marvin Harner Pvt 1st Class 4th Inf on those walls. I asked my aunt about my uncle Marvin and she knew he was killed when he was young and the family had been devastated about it but didn't know anything else. It wasn't until I looked online and researched that I found out where he died and how. We were looking through his photos and my one of two cousins said the black and white photos of all those dead people were "creepy". When my grandfather passed away in 1989 my dad went back to Pennsylvania to get some of the family items from his home. My grandfather had married again and she wasn't going to give up anything and instead was auctioning it all off. My dad didn't have a lot of money and had to buy the photos and a couple old chairs that had been in the family for generations but soon enough he was out of money. I never did hear about a Purple Heart and I don't know if the family ever received one. What I will hope is that it was there, that it was bought by a collector and that it's value is now hundreds of dollars. I know if that Purple Heart had been worth nothing on the collectors market that my grandfather's wife would've had it thrown out with the trash. So I hope it's out there and no I don't want it back. Put it in a case or on your wall, put this photo I'm attaching with it and honor this man and his sacrifice for all of us! I am the only one in my family who even cares to know about his service and his unfortunate death. My family is small, I am the only male direct descendant left in my line. My neices and cousins don't care about family history, they couldn't tell you who the "creepy" people are in the old family photos. Do not give that medal to them or it'll end up thrown away. Keep it, speak Marvin's name, honor his service. This is what we must try to get Rep Cook to understand...

[pchepurko]

How typical of members of the U.S. Congress to take up such a mundane issue rather then attempting to fix the major issues in this country. They don't realize that these decoration wind up on the market when the families sell or discard them.

[Thor996]

Maybe the person who proposed this legislation should concern himself more with these types of veteran issues rather than who has their purple heart medals.

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/29/new-low-dead-veterans-left-in-va-hospital-morgue-for-weeks-without-burial.html

 

An Illinois Veterans Affairs hospital already under fire for excessive wait times, festering black mold and kitchen cockroaches faces a new shame – the bodies of dead patients left unclaimed in the morgue for up to two months without proper burial, whistleblower documents allege.

[CNY Militaria]

The good news here is that only 1 out of every 4 Bills make it out of this committee for referral to the floor. The bills are assigned a probability of being enacted, and this particular one was assigned a 1% chance of being passed and signed into law.

 

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr6234

[JasonT]

"The squeeky wheel gets the grease" - like others said, let your reps know there is another side to all this. If all people hear about are the stolen medals and "greedy" collectors, the politicians and the average citizen will see this as a good law. It will look like the pols are busy at work helping vets and their families when in fact they are just looking for things to do while they ignore real issues.

[Garandomatic]

I didn't know this feature existed. Nice to see sone good news...

 

The good news here is that only 1 out of every 4 Bills make it out of this committee for referral to the floor. The bills are assigned a probability of being enacted, and this particular one was assigned a 1% chance of being passed and signed into law.

https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/114/hr6234

[custer1]

It seems to me that the issue of private property rights may need to be front and center on a challenge to this. Perhaps the ACLU would challenge it, but I doubt it,

 

Kurt

My thoughts exactly.

JimB

[Bob Hudson]

Hello all, ive actually been invited to attend an event with Paul cook to recognize veterans and law enforcement from the 8th district.

I doubt I'll get any conversation time but if I do I'll do my best to explain our position on this.

I'll bring pics of the displays I do for schools, churches and Boy Scouts to show were not greedy collectors and appreciate the history.

I'll at least try to hand him Mr. Hudson's letter.

 

Just shake his hand and say, "I'd like to ask you to reconsider making history preservation a crime."

[Bob Hudson]

PLEASE contact your Congressional Representative and if possible send an actual letter. Make sure you contact the right one, as most offices will not not respond to people from other districts:

 

http://www.house.gov/representatives/find/

[tarbridge]

So,

We need a proficient individual with the capability to write a succinct and concise letter, that we can download, then send to the proper branches of Government.

I believe the MOPH or PHR would be a waste of time or effort. They are not a solution, they are the problem.

[oldradiostuff]

Your local member may not have anything to say about it yet - that would occur if it's brought to a floor vote of the full House. At this point, correspondence should be directed to members of the Judiciary Committee. You can find a list of the membership here:

 

https://judiciary.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Full-Committee-Roster.pdf

[Bluehawk]

Excellent...

 

 

Forum members who belong to any of those groups needs to spread this like wildfire.

 

Here's what I've posted on Facebook - feel free to post it anyway and everywhere (and check it for typos):

 

Why do we want to criminalize caring about history and trying to preserve it?

 

Congress long ago banned sale and even most possession of the US MEDAL OF HONOR. Since then there has no doubt been an underground black market, but even more maddening many, many copies of the nation's highest military honor have gone to Canada, Europe and other overseas locations, where they can be openly sold, traded and possessed. Here in the US, meanwhile, the FBI has seized and destroyed Medals of Honor.

Now, a perhaps well-intended but misinformed California Congressmen wants to do the same thing with the Purple Heart Medal, awarded to combat wounded. Rep. Paul Cook (R-CA 8th) has introduced HR 6234 that would prohibit the sale of any government issued Purple Heart medals. A disgruntled National Guard officer mad that collectors would not give their Purple Hearts to he and his organization has spearheaded this campaign that now threatens to become the law of the land. Again, there are some good intentions here, but as we've seen with the Medal of Honor, it will in effect outsource another medal to other countries and, no doubt, create another black market. Some say "return them to the families." Well, Purple Hearts that are traded amongst collectors usually were all disposed of in one way or another by the veteran's families, or even came from estate vets with no heirs. While families continue to dispose of medals, collectors put the medals they find literally on a pedestal to honor the veteran, their service, their sacrifice. Anyone can search online and find collectors upholding the legacy of brave veterans.

Collectors do voluntarily return Purple Hearts to families. I know one collector who paid a lot of money for a WWII Marine's Purple Heart and then spent hundreds of dollars to travel to the Marine's hometown to give it to his brother. The reunion was shown on the local TV news. Within six months the family told the collector they no longer had it. It's suspected they sold it - again.

 

 

[Dave]

Your local member may not have anything to say about it yet - that would occur if it's brought to a floor vote of the full House. At this point, correspondence should be directed to members of the Judiciary Committee. You can find a list of the membership here:

 

https://judiciary.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Full-Committee-Roster.pdf

 

 

Good call...the sponsor is also looking for co-sponsors for the bill; preventing that from happening is another good measure.

[Gary B]

I would recommend contacting a representative from OMSA; perhaps their President, Frank Borch. He was a former Army JAG officer, who has written about the Stolen Valor Act. A standard letter that is written cogently that can be downloaded, signed and sent in to one's representative would be the best approach for a "letter campaign" IMO.

 

Gary B

[tarbridge]

I would recommend contacting a representative from OMSA; perhaps their President, Frank Borch. He was a former Army JAG officer, who written about the Stolen Valor Act. A standard letter that is written cogently that can be downloaded, signed and sent in to one's representative.

 

Gary B

Good idea.

[Bob Hudson]

 

 

Good call...the sponsor is also looking for co-sponsors for the bill; preventing that from happening is another good measure.

 

This is why we need to hammer home that this CRIMINALIZES the preservation of history: members of Congress want to avoid controversy and while piles of letters with details about the good we do are needed, at the top of the pile is that basic attack on those who care about history.

[Bob Hudson]

I would recommend contacting a representative from OMSA; perhaps their President, Frank Borch. He was a former Army JAG officer, who has written about the Stolen Valor Act. A standard letter that is written cogently that can be downloaded, signed and sent in to one's representative would be the best approach for a "letter campaign" IMO.

 

Gary B

 

Good idea: in fact if you are retired military, make up some simple letterhead so so can write that actual snail mail letter. Put something like this at the top"

 

John Doe, Master Sergeant, USA (Ret)

1234 Main St.

Anytown USA

[Schofield1943]

Mr. Gober of the MOPH specifically mentions the words "lost" and "stolen". The MOPH should be aware that it is already unlawful to sell stolen goods (including a stolen Purple Heart). Not to mention the private property rights issue as stated above.

 

Even in a worst case scenario where this passed I don't see how it could be enforced on a large scale (there are something like 3,500 MoHs out there compared to hundreds of thousands of posthumous PHs and the monetary values are not comparable). SoS would have to move to Toronto and a lot of stuff would change hands under the table.

 

I have a hard time envisioning getting a call from the FBI over a $300 Purple Heart while someone planted two bombs 15 blocks from where I live two weeks ago but we live in a weird, weird world.

[tarbridge]

I contacted Fred Borch...President of OMSA.

[tarbridge]

You know even the breath of this staggering...How many casualty Purple Hearts are out there...2 million...3 million?

[Bob Hudson]

Mr. Gober of the MOPH specifically mentions the words "lost" and "stolen". The MOPH should be aware that it is already unlawful to sell stolen goods (including a stolen Purple Heart). Not to mention the private property rights issue as stated above.

 

Even in a worst case scenario where this passed I don't see how it could be enforced on a large scale (there are something like 3,500 MoHs out there compared to hundreds of thousands of posthumous PHs and the monetary values are not comparable). SoS would have to move to Toronto and a lot of stuff would change hands under the table.

 

I have a hard time envisioning getting a call from the FBI over a $300 Purple Heart while someone planted two bombs 15 blocks from where I live two weeks ago but we live in a weird, weird world.

 

If it was the law we could not let you sell it here and ebay already bans sale of PH's. As for propetty rights: the government could easily argue they remain the owners.

[pmanton]

Wow I'm a life member of the MOPH and this is the first I've heard of it.

 

Paul

Salome, AZ

[Schofield1943]

 

If it was the law we could not let you sell it here and ebay already bans sale of PH's. As for propetty rights: the government could easily argue they remain the owners.

 

Oh absolutely - which is why I mentioned things being sold under the table.

 

And that would be a very interesting argument for the government to make - would they claim ownership exclusively of the Purple Heart or of any and all medals that they have ever presented to anyone? Sort of a slippery slope that winds up in some very subjective territory.

[Bob Hudson]

 

And that would be a very interesting argument for the government to make - would they claim ownership exclusively of the Purple Heart or of any and all medals that they have ever presented to anyone? Sort of a slippery slope that winds up in some very subjective territory.

 

No, all they have to do is make the claim and who could afford the legal bills to challenge that in court? They have armies of lawyers paid for by us and it would be child's play for them to outlitigate any challenges.

[Dave]

I contacted Fred Borch...President of OMSA.

 

 

As did I. Poor guy is probably getting inundated!

 

It will be interesting to see what the law actually says when the text makes it out on the Internet...