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Individual/organizational issue items/clothing bag in 80s and 90s.


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Thank you Allen Dail for these lists. These are great pieces of information for me as if I'm collecting things from 1980-2005 period probably 90's are most important part of my collection.

 

As far as I can see the most difficult will be... socks as wool green ones are hard to find here in my size. I use combat boots for some outdoor uses and I always use these newer design cotton/nylon/spandex/silver plated nylon ones. Does these were ever worn with BDU? There are also black wool ones available. I read about these in AR670-1 from 2005. Does anbody remember using them?

 

Also, does black leather dress gloves were ever worn with BDU in garrison?

 

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I've read all that topic. Great info there.

 

As we are talking about how the items are issued I have some question about field packs. As we can see from Allen Dail's records he was issued Field Pack LC-1, left and right shoulder strap, no frame in Fort Hood. Well - most of ALICE LC-1 packs that I see in surplus stores look like they were made out of random parts from different manufacturers/years ect if it comes to all straps ect. These parts show different amount of wear sometimes. Sometimes the have quite a big difference in shade caused by discoloration from sun.

Does these were commonly issued as previously used and you were getting different parts in just usable condition or anybody cared that you should get a set of matching parts? As from manufacturer these packs were coming as a pack and frame assembly. Frame assembly probably had all the straps made by one manufacturer when new.

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It would come individually components from whatever company had the contract. One company could have contract for shoulders straps while another only kidney belt yet another for the pack body then someone else with the liners. By the way, I usually wasn't issued the liners. I was issued the pack in different ways. Usually I got the complete pack assembled but I've also been issued each part separately for me to assemble. I also was issued one pack that had two of the same side straps. I had a personal large pack & mostly issued a medium which only went to the side in the closet. I recall seeing one fellow who's pack had old Vietnam lightweight ruck style straps & also some of the early kidney pads. I was issued one ruck that has ALICE Y straps without the back portion which I removed & turned in for a new set and turned the pack in without them noticing no straps. My father was an ambulance driver who was issued an ALICE pack but no straps nor frame. His TA50 was only a belt, a M1967 small arms pouch, an e-tool, a canteen, & suspenders (Y straps). I've seen folks use the commercial nylon M1956 style H suspenders, I had a pair of canvas ones & I vividly recall a 29th INF instructor at Sand Hill with a set of M1967 suspenders.

Be well,

 

Chad C. Rogers

Retired Army

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@Allen Dail - what is UNDSHWLBWN and DRWS WL BN on your's Basic Issue List? I assume it's something like udnershirt wool brown and drawers wool brown but at this time I would bet that polypropylene was used instead rather of wool/cotton cold weather uderwear.

 

Does it was something like that:

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whew! what a question!

 

Having been in the US Army Nat'l Guard and active duty US Army from 1989 to 1999, my main contribution to an answer would be that it all depends on one's unit. In my first unit, a NG infantry unit (I was an RTO/31C at the time) we got all kinds of gear, even some odd Vietnam and WWII stuff on the rare occasion; everything that was issued got turned back in, but many if not most of accumulated our own gear (especially LBE) after awhile. Later on, while on active duty at Ft Bragg after I reclassed, it also depended on my unit.

 

When you check into a post, the central issue facility gives you a big pile of stuff, and it is supplemented by one's unit to which one is assigned. But, I also had my own set of LBE (two sets actually, for different missions/uses) plus the one issued to me by the post, plus the set issued to me by my unit (for a total of four sets!). Sometimes we even had "parade sets" of stripped down LBE for doing something shiny and fancy for the brass and civilians or funeral detail.

 

Uniform-wise, I was issued my basic issue of clothing and footwear (two sets of speed-lace black leather boots) when I inprocessed onto active duty at Ft Benning, and had to buy my own from there out (jungle boots, baby!). Except for the time I was issued a whole bunch of clothing and footwear for the desert (known as "combat issue" from what I recall) at Ft Bragg, plus another bunch of it when I went overseas; the stuff issued at Bragg I had to turn back in but the stuff issued overseas I got to keep. In my last unit, they had a pile of BDUs (woodland) that we could ask for when ours wore out, but boots (excluding desert boots) were always private purchase. Again, we all bought (or acquired from our supply room or someone else's supply room!) our own uniforms, boots, and gear no matter what was issued...it especially helped when I ETS'd from Bragg and had to turn all the basic gear back in that I had been issued when I first arrived (including never used items like a shelter half and mess kit!), and they want it cleaner than when you turned it in. (My least amusing moment was when I turned in something I had never even used and they said it was unserviceable and they couldn't take it back in its condition!)

 

whew...that's all I can remember right now...

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Yes Pawtwo that is the long johns that I was issued except my drawers were white instead of brown. I was not issued poly pro until Germany. I preferred the ones I was issued in basic over the polypros , plus we were only supposed to wear natural fibers under our nomex on tanks. a pic of my top and my bottoms looked like these not sure if these are the exact model but they were white like these.

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Paul,

 

I wanted to get back with you reference the Alice pack. At Fort Campbell in the early 80's I was issued a small size ruck sack and it was nearly impossible to fit all the required gear into the pack. Large rucksacks also known as "Ranger rucks" were not an issue item at the time. These had to be privately purchased by the Soldier and the surplus stores outside of the post could not keep them in supply. They would fly off the shelves very quickly.

 

Prior to me actually finding a large rucksack at a surplus store, the only time I saw a large rucksack was when I was a Dragon gunner. The night tracking sight for the Dragon anti tank weapon system was carried in a large rucksack that had a special plastic frame that fit inside the ruck for the night sight. This rucksack was carried on the front of my body, similar to a reserve parachute. Luckily I did not have to carry this too often as it was very heavy and awkward.

 

I am not sure when the Army actually started to issue large rucksacks to everyone, but by the time I got to Germany and was stationed in Berlin in 1986, I was issued a large rucksack. I also had my private purchase large rucksack that I still have today and it is still packed with my 1980's gear. If I remember, when I bought the large rucksack from Bricks Army Surplus shop outside of Gate 4 at Fort Campbell, Kentucky it was $60.00. That was a lot of money for a private back in the early 80's..

 

The socks that I were issued were OD green cushion sole wool socks. I had a real hard time wearing these socks because of the wool content and I would get blisters, so I started to wear cotton socks and then the green socks over them. After I started doing this I wore 2 pairs of socks for the rest of my 21years of service and I never had blister or foot problems again and we went on some very long distance road marches...

 

The Army wool sweater was also very uncomfortable to wear as I would always break out in a rash when it contacted my skin so I purchased the OD green sleep shirt and I wore them in place of the wool sweater. I purchased several of the sleep shirts and still have them and use them today.

 

The only black socks I was issued were for the dress green uniform, unlike the Soldier's today who are issued the black socks as part of their basic issue items.

 

Leigh

"Pain is only Weakness Leaving the Body"

MSG Leigh E Smith Jr
US Army (Retired)

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@evets - you can't get this kind of knowledge without this kind of a bit strange questions. These things are not so old so right now there is a opportunity to buy whole uniform with all even most weird accesories like undergarments :D

 

Without knowledge collected on this forum I couldn't understand how it's possible to see soldiers in BDU for example in snowy terrain. In my location we have a lot of so called "cold weather" and I can easily test if something is comfortable or not :D

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My experience in Berlin was similar to Leigh's, I was a 5-0-Deuce stationed in city Feb 89-Dec 90, got the Army of Occupation Medal issued by unit supply the first week but couldn't wear it until in city 30 days., Then again when I reenlisted for Germany, and took Outside CONUS Leave to Berlin to visit inlaws, I got orders cut direct back to Berlin instead of going thru 21st Replacement in Frankfurt, Oct 92-June 94,

 

CIF issue could be different according to post. In Berlin, we were issued 2 canteens, cups, and covers, stateside, only 1each; In Berlin we were issued Medium Rucks with frame, although I used a personally purchased Large Ruck as an 11C Mortar Maggot; stateside, was issued Medium Ruck, no frame. Both times in Berlin I was issued running shoes, probably something to do with uniformity with runs being performed thru the city not just on post, or could have been because of limited purchase capability overseas.

 

In Berlin, I was issued one used MOPP Chemical Warfare Suit for training, and we were issued by our Rifle Company NBC Room, an "icepack" (because it was two clear trashbags taped up, looked like an icepack for injuries), including a brand new, in wrap MOPP Suit, 2pr rubber gloves with the white cotton liners, 2pr M17 gas mask filters, the pain the rump lace up NBC booties and I think atropine injectors, which was kept at the bottom of our issue/field gear wall locker until ordered to open in case of war.

 

Stateside, we just got one used training MOPP suit issued by CIF.

 

First tour in Berlin, we got issued extra Wallace Berry wool long johns, the M1965 Fishtail parka with liner, Rifle mitten with liners, and M65 Field Pants with liners; Second Tour, we got issued the complete Goretex ECWCS Clothing system with the really thick brown poly pro "bear suit" insulator top and bib coveralls, got to keep the two sets of brown poly pro thermal underwear. No winter boots were issued outside of Mukluks in Alaska, so the first thing you did was go to the PX and buy a pair of insulated Matterhorn or Danner boots.

 

I got an olive green nylon M1968 Flak Jacket plus kevlar PASGT Helmet during my first tour, then a PASGT Frag Vest and Kevlar Helmet during my second.

 

We kept our Rucksacks packed with a unit-specified packing list, down to what goes in what Alice ruck pocket, which was kept on top of the the wall locker, just grab and go during alerts.

 

Second tour, with the Berlin Wall torn down, we no longer had the mission to protect our sector from the Soviets, so USAEUR made the two remaining Bns part of SETAF Southern European Task Force with the Airborne Infantry Bn in Vicenza, Italy, was 325th Airborne Inf Bn at the time. We had to pull a 30 day RDF Alert cycle with certain unit equipment like mortar systems pre-packed ready to go along with our A Bag dufflebag loaded according to unit SOP, packed on a USAF cargo pallet, ready to go. During RDF Alert Cycle we were subjected to 2hr recall back to the unit, a 2 beer limit, etc. We pulled a few practice alerts remaining in garrison, though, our 5th Bn got to pull a full "wheels up" air transported alert to Grafenwoehr. But in June 93, we got tasked with Operation Able-Sentry to Skopje, Macedonia to reenforce UNPROFOR, even though it wasn't our alert cycle. All of our helmets were painted blue, had UN decals applied, our Humvees were painted white with UN in black on the sides, we were issued the blue berets which were were told to wear the 2 weeks before we flew to Skopje. All of our Humvees, 81mm mortars, TOW systems, etc and brand new M113A3s were left in Skopje for 2nd Armored Div to fall in on.

 

Berlin was different than any other NATO posting, we had equipment no other units in Europe had, like 90mm M67 Recoilless Rifles, and track-mounted M29 81mm Mortars M125A2s during my first tour. Second tour, we still had 81mm Mortars in the Rifle Cos, M252 Improved 81mms but each Mortar Squad was assigned a slant-back Humvee, but most of the time we humped the 81s since we were to support our Rifle Plts who did not have transport, they were strictly Light Infantry. So we got to hump the Bn packing list plus part of the 81mm Mortar system and accessories like aiming posts, cleaning staff, HE round or two, 25 sandbags, plus an AT4 rocket launcher. Hump all that shinola while keeping up with the Rifle Plts. We had towed 120mm Mortars in the HHC during second tour, replacing the Combat Support Company CSC 4.2in 107mm M30 Mortars from my first.

 

Other details, we had an M1 Tank Company (F Co, 40th AR) and E Battery, 320th FA self-propelled M109 155mm Artillery during my first tour; second time back the SP 155s were gone, replaced with towed 105mm, per Light Infantry Div TO&E but we still had M1 Tanks in support which were great during winter FTXs, Light Inf could at least huddle behind an M1 to warm up.

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Socks: I remember being issued the OD Green Wool blend socks then towards the end of my first tour in Berlin the black blend socks were being sold at Clothing Sales and being issued. For some reason the sock cuffs were made different, the blacks were too tight around the top, and they got stretched out quickly always slid down inside boots so I searched far and wide for the OD Green socks, which I horded

 

During my deployment to Skopje, we were issued the first Rocky Intermediate Weather Boots for testing, which were heavy, clunky, the liners were sewn in so they took forever to dry out. I preferred to wear Jungle Boots on dismounted patrols, covering with the green rubber overshoes during inclement weather.. Wore the Rockys during Humvee patrols, esp when I rode in the back where the heater didn't reach. Got to keep them at the end of mission, but in most cases, even in Colorado, I still preferred my Jungle Boots, except during coldest days in the field.

 

When we got back to Berlin we were issued two new sets of BDUs since the laundry facilities in Skopje were deemed substandard, we were given a memo signed by Company Commander, took it to Clothing Sales, grabbed two sets in your size if you could find them off the shelf (Berlin was drawing down, wasn't being resupplies via AAFES like normal posts), lady at the register would ring up the BDUs, staple the Memo and Deployment Orders to their yellow receipt, and out you would walk with brand new uniforms.

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In Berlin, I was issued one used MOPP Chemical Warfare Suit for training, and we were issued by our Rifle Company NBC Room, an "icepack" (because it was two clear trashbags taped up, looked like an icepack for injuries), including a brand new, in wrap MOPP Suit, 2pr rubber gloves with the white cotton liners, 2pr M17 gas mask filters, the pain the rump lace up NBC booties and I think atropine injectors, which was kept at the bottom of our issue/field gear wall locker until ordered to open in case of war.

Do you have anymore details and/or pictures of said set up? I was under the assumption that all of the NBC stuff was kept either in the Alice pack or in the small woodland pack for NBC gear.

Cold War Collector 1945-1991 NATO & Warsaw Pact

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Do you have anymore details and/or pictures of said set up? I was under the assumption that all of the NBC stuff was kept either in the Alice pack or in the small woodland pack for NBC gear.

 

Fallout,

 

In reference to the NBC gear, during my time in Berlin we were issued the OD green MOPP suits, these did not have carriers. Once the suits were opened from the vacuum packed plastic bags they were in, we normally just rolled them up and placed them in our packs. The BDU carrier that you are talking about did not make it to berlin when I was there. (86-90). I did not see this until getting back to the states and then the MOPP suit was a BDU pattern two piece suit.

 

During OEF/OIF the new JSLIST suits came out with the suspenders already with the pants and a hooded top, unlike the OD green which did not have a hood. We were issued two JSLIST suits but I do not recall if there was a carrier for this suit.

 

Here are some pictures of a full field gear layout I did with all of my TA-50 from Berlin. This was carried in both the ruck sack and duffel bag. You will see the MOPP suit and my NBC gear that I carried. The "Go to War" NBC suit I do not have as it was turned in after I departed and was most likely opened and used for training rather than being reissued if the NBC folks found any rips or tears in the outer package, thus compromising the integrity of the charcoal lined suit...

 

You will see in the pictures my M17 Protective mask, M256 chemical detector kit and then in the other pictures you will see the personal decon kit case, extra mask filters, NBC pocket guide, atropine quick reference card and the boots, pants and gloves..

 

 

 

 

 

Leigh

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"Pain is only Weakness Leaving the Body"

MSG Leigh E Smith Jr
US Army (Retired)

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Does these socks looks proper to you as a genuine issue socks from 90s? Or maybe commercially made item that was possible to buy in PX? They doesn't have NSN number on them nor contract number. These are sold without any packages here.

 

They have at least proper blend of wool, cotton and nylon.

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

Those are the same socks I was issued at FT. Jackson, SC in February 2001. I think I was only issued 2 pair- same as underwear and t-shirts (brown). I stopped wearing them after Basic training and Artillery School. Thorlo socks were much more confortable and were available at Clothing Sales.

Todd

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