WWI Wings

[Pops369]

Would some opinions and value. Thanks in advance.

[tarbridge]

Closer and larger images would help...

[Pops369]

That's all I have right now.

[rustywings]

The potential of you having some rare badges is real. But as Tarbridge eluded to, our members need to view closer and better focused images before many of them will commit to an opinion of authenticity or value.., which is a good thing for all of us.. I hope to see more of your wings and insignia.

[doyler]

Im guessing these are on aan estate sale

[Pops369]

What does it matter if this an estate sale, estate auction, yard sale, craigslist, antique store, or the neighbor down the street? I have found many items at sales that were passed to members on the forum, including you. Just not sure what your point is.

 

I am trying to discern how much effort to put forth towards getting these wings. I am not an even close to knowing if these wings are right. I just know they have a chance and it was a long shot with the pictures that are available. I was under the impression this is part of what the forum was for and to me the members here have been extremely helpful.

 

If I am in the wrong, please let me know.

[cwnorma]

Some thoughts:

 

- Pilot wing: Can't help on this one. Hard to make any judgement about the wing without seeing the back

 

- Naval Aviation Observer half wing: I believe that this is not one of the commonly seen "AMICO" fakes. Real ones are made like a WW1 CPO cap badge with an applied rope; pin/hardware configuration may be important to a determination as well. lots of castings of these out there

 

- Balloonist/cadet/observer half wing: This is the WC Link pattern and the dies for these are still out "in the wild" vexing collectors. Some, but not all, fakes of this pattern are marked BB&B. WC Link usually hallmarked their early badges.

 

All in all, this is a heavily faked area of collecting. The details matter. If you can get them cheap; take a chance. Otherwise, you might be spending a lot on a lot of nothing...

 

Good luck

Chris

[tarbridge]

What does it matter if this an estate sale, estate auction, yard sale, craigslist, antique store, or the neighbor down the street? I have found many items at sales that were passed to members on the forum, including you. Just not sure what your point is.

 

I am trying to discern how much effort to put forth towards getting these wings. I am not an even close to knowing if these wings are right. I just know they have a chance and it was a long shot with the pictures that are available. I was under the impression this is part of what the forum was for and to me the members here have been extremely helpful.

 

If I am in the wrong, please let me know.

It does not matter...I'm sure Doyler has better things to do than to try and scoop your location .He freely helps folks continuously. The problem helping to discern your posted items...horrible pictures...no close-ups...no images of the rear. Almost everything you posted has been faked.If you pushed me...first wing looks interesting...with these images...buy cheap...

You are at the right place...a helpful place...but nobody wants to guess so don't expect a strong response with the provided images.

[pconrad02]

Part of determining the provenance of high dollar wings is knowing were they came from , both the Naval Observer and Balloon Pilot wings are very rare and highly faked, thus the questions. I have owned some examples of some of these wings and I wouldn't hazard to give my opinion on any of these using the current pictures.. If the seller wants 100.00 for the group go for it but if the asking price is thousands then better pictures are warranted.

[pfrost]

The thing is that the people who are trying to help you are absolutely correct--without better pictures, the best they can do is guess. I'm sure you didn't mean to be rude, but the people on this forum are some of the greatest and kindest wing collectors you will find.

 

But I'll give it a try.

The USN aviator wing looks like it may be a Robbin, NANCO or PANCRAFT wing (I believe they were all made by Robbin but show up with various hallmarks). Probably a late 30's-WWII vintage wing. Not terribly rare--~100$ or so.

 

The USN observer wing is an early WWI version, but it looks to be a cap-size wing. Without looking at better pictures of the front and back, there is no way to know if it is a fake. My sense is that it may be OK, but as a cap badge/sweetheart badge, it isn't going to be all that valuable, but it won't be cheap either.

 

The USN balloon pilot/air cadet/sea plan crew (they all used this pattern) wing actually looks like a cast fake to me. These wings are faked heavily and the pin and catch make me think it is much later than WWI-20's. Only way to tell is by better pictures.

 

The reason why they asked if this is an estate sale is that it can go 2 ways. The first way, you get a name and (if you are lucky) can get some provenance. The second way, you get no provenance and an estate dealer salting the sale with fakes.

[Pops369]

Thanks Guys. I will try and get more pictures and I do know that it's hard to tell from just a few random pictures.

[bschwartz]

I'd like to see better pictures of the aviator badge for sure. I'm not sure it's a Robbins as the shield has a different shape than the Robbins wing and the top of the anchor is thinner than on a Robbins wing. Also the Robbins pattern has the top feather of the shoulder shorter than the rest of the wings that flow below it. On this wing it seems like the top wing in the shoulder is longer than the rest of the feathers below it. Here's a link to a WW1 era Robbins - http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/wwi/us/lott.shtmlhttp://www.ww2wings.com/wings/wwi/us/lott.shtml The differences are subtle but they are there. Especially in the shield. Interesting.

[vintageproductions]

It's all in an estate sale in Texas at the end of the month.

 

Here is a link someone else started earlier on here:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/273480-upcoming-estate-sale-worth-checking-out/

[pconrad02]

After seeing what else is there, including the ID badge and bracelet , I looks more encouraging, but not conclusive. There was a name in the helmet listed: " Ed Kelly"

[manayunkman]

The problem I see is that this person was also a collector.

 

There seems to be a Navy pilot theme going on but there are many items and reference books that suggest collector.

[Pops369]

Is this not the same wing?

 

http://griffinmilitaria.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=1822&cat=19&page=3&search=&since=0&status=&title=

[cwnorma]

Is this not the same wing?

 

http://griffinmilitaria.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=1822&cat=19&page=3&search=&since=0&status=&title=

 

Both of them have a common origin. but I am not prepared to say they are the same wing. This particular pattern of half wing is, as I noted above, made from the WC Link die. The WC Link die is still out there somewhere in the hands of someone who has no compunctions against churning out restrikes. The one on the estate sale? Its hard to tell from the photographs if it is a real one, a restrike, or as Patrick suggested, a casting. If you bought the one from Danny and it later turned out to be a fake, someone with a reputation like Danny would surely make it right. At an estate sale, you get what you get.

 

Like the Meyer badges, there are indeed good, period-struck versions out there of this pattern. But there are also many, many reproductions, and restrikes. In the end, a collector has to be comfortable with these on their own--as you will get many opinions on these badges.

 

I have one similar to the one on Danny's site that is only marked sterling. I honestly don't know for absolute certain if it is a restrike or not--fortunately, I am not in it deep. I do know that many restrike wings of this pattern are marked BB&B. This is not the BB&B pattern wing.