Pineapple Air Force Pilot Wings Luke Field (Ford Island) 5th Composite Group 1930's

[rustywings]

Hey Salvage Sailor, I wish we could identify some of these guys for you as a "thank you" for all of your efforts in providing us with the terrific individual images! Your yard-long photograph is absolutely chuck-full of wings, collar insignia and uniform variations! Thanks for sharing this great photograph!

[Salvage Sailor]

Some group scans starting from the left side - A

[Salvage Sailor]

Group scan - B

[Salvage Sailor]

Group scan - C

[Salvage Sailor]

Group scan - D

[Salvage Sailor]

Group scan - E

[Salvage Sailor]

Group scan - F

[CliffP]

That is a wonderful group photo from a bygone era, and thank you for adding the enlarged images of the officers.

 

Great job!

[Salvage Sailor]

Pilot No. 5 - The future Lt General Thomas S. Moorman Sr.? He earned his pilot wings in October 1934 and was assigned to the 4th Observation Squadron, 5th Composite Group at Luke Field, Hawaii until July 1936

 

 

 

[AZPhil]

Great photograph.

You did an excellent job of the close up shot's.

I noticed a lot of these Gent's are sporting bullion insignia.

Was that common back in the 30's?

 

Semper Fi

Phil

[Salvage Sailor]

Absolutely, as shown in this mix of bullion 1920's and 1930's insignia and the wide pallet of brown & khaki uniforms. Officers having to be responsible for their own uniforms during the height of the great depression clearly made them last within a wider interpretation of the regulations.

[AZPhil]

Thank you for the reply. I recently picked up a Sam Brown belt and want to add it to a uniform.

You show an excellent example of that in wear with these photo's.

 

Semper Fi

Phil

[Salvage Sailor]

Bump for fresh eyes - Anyone recognize these early Aviators and future WWII Air Force leaders?

 

[hoppylu2]

Most excellent close-in breakdown of an otherwise incomprehensible photo.

It's a wardrobe "expert's" nightmare. If you tried to tell some costumer that officers in Hawaii, between the wars wore OD service caps with their khaki coats, you'd have a big argument on your hands.

Wear 'em if you got 'em. And wear 'em till they wear out.

[hoppylu2]

I meant to say that wearing the khaki cap with the OD would seen an anathema to many costumers.

[Wailuna]

On 9/17/2022 at 3:13 PM, hoppylu2 said:

It's a wardrobe "expert's" nightmare. If you tried to tell some costumer that officers in Hawaii, between the wars wore OD service caps with their khaki coats, you'd have a big argument on your hands.

Hunh?  What exactly is objectionable about this authentic periord  photograph showing "... officers in Hawaii, between the wars wore OD service caps with their khaki coats..."?  And what are  "wardrobe expert's" and "costumers" and why should the rest of us care them?

[hoppylu2]

Aloha,

I find nothing objectionable in mix/match caps to coats.

You, Wailuna, should not care about such things.

It was a compliment S.Sailor for posting, and an idle observation, because photos like this are not readily found.

I am also a docent at a wing of the Commemorative Air Force, and uniforms are among the displays. I like to know what's correct for what period. We get lots of experts coming through there, as well.

So, being a lawyer, there's the long answer to your short question. You should have seen the answer before I cleaved it in twain.

[Bugme]

24 minutes ago, hoppylu2 said:

...So, being a lawyer, there's the long answer to your short question. You should have seen the answer before I cleaved it in twain.

OK, great answer and explanation up until you got to the: "I'm a lawyer" mic drop moment. Let go of the ego dude, this forum is filled with lawyers, doctors, police, military of high ranks, historians, professors, white collar professional and all sorts of blue collar guys who know more than most museum "experts". We are all here with a common desire for history through militaria. 

[Salvage Sailor]

Aloha Everyone,

 

Mahalo for adding to this USAAC Luke Field, T.H. topic, hope you'll find more of interest to discuss here - focusing on the topic at hand, eh?

 

Welcome to the forum hoppylu2 from another homegrown Angelino.  Looking forward to what you have to share.

 

There ya go...

 

 

 

 

[hoppylu2]

Great post, as always. Thanks.

Is that a Hawaiian Department patch, do you think?

What year would you date the portrait?

Mahalo

[Salvage Sailor]

Yes, Hawaiian Department. 5th Composite Group Luke Field (Ford Island), T.H. circa 1935

 

 

 

 

[hoppylu2]

That's interesting about the Hawaiian Dept patch being so widely used.

I'm trying to get a handle on whether/when the pinwheel patch was worn there, if at all, around 1941 and whether a generic AAC DI existed, and if there was such a DI, whether it was worn by officers on shirt or blouse epaulettes.

There's an apparent split in postings around this site, regarding shoulder patches; their use on blouses but not shirts, and whether sewn on or snapped on.

Mahalo plenty.

[Salvage Sailor]

I'd say no, the Pinwheel patch wasn't worn by the Hawaiian Air Force units prior to 1940-1941 when the squadrons moved to newly built Hickam Air Force Base.  Same holds true for a generic AAC DI in Hawaii 1920-1940.  I'll never say never and a photo may pop up causing me to revisit this conclusion.

 

Same goes for patched shirts on Oahu during the Hawaiian Division years, rarely if ever seen, as the patches were worn on the service coats.

[hoppylu2]

Would you say that a Hawaiian Dept DI would be worn by any one, on any shirt or service coat? Or did they not exist in 1941?

Mahalo nui loa for your thoughts and replies.

John

[kiaiokalewa]

Are we talking about the "rare" unauthorized oversized patch type Hawaiian Department DI made by N.S. Meyers with early incised hallmark found (to the best of my knowledge) in screw back fastener, vaulted by design, and thought to only be worn on campaign hat by the few lucky privileged to do so (just as in the case of equally rare P.I. Div patch type Distinctive Insignia) worn during the late 20's early 30's?  If so, the answer to your question is likely no.   

 

From a Heraldric stand point the Hawaiian Department would be considered a non-color bearing entity and technically entitled to  a "badge" and typically its origins can be traced back to days of chivalry, etc... Problem with the Hawaiian Department is that it was organized in 1913 of which it had no Heraldry to trace. 

 

The octagon shape was representative of the eight major islands of the Hawaii Island chain and the red and yellow colors represent the old Hawaiian Royal colors. Not much historical significance here.

 

I would assume the Heraldry Department shut down Hawaiian Department's attempt to get their badge approved and authorized due to it lack of Heraldry to begin with!  What small hand full of these rare Hawaiian Departments "Badges" that are circulating out therevin collections are actually samples made by the Hawaiian Department pending approval which never happened.

 

Again, it is unlikely such an metal insignia would had been worn in 1941.