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Have you ever thought to join a Veterans' Organization?


KevinBeyer
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I respectfully disagree with you on this issue. I got into many a heated debate with some local VFW members who would make comments like "Obama never served in uniform" and that "voting for a democrat was unpatriotic". I would then point out John McCain's appalling and shameful voting records on veterans benefits as well as the overall voting record of many of his fellow Republicans in congress. Of course many of them refuse to research the voting records of elected officials and prefer to just go through life as a "low information voter". I'm confused as to why some vets organizations would endorse a candidate or party which historically votes against their own self-interests? Voting for someone based solely on whether or not they served in uniform is just plain wrong. thumbdown.gif

 

I don't mean to get into a big pissing contest about politics so I'll just leave it at that. While I don't share some views on this subject I do respect everyone's opinion. The politics issue is just one of several concerns I have with the VFW and legion, especially at the local level. When they start welcoming some of the younger vets into the organization maybe I'll change my mind.

 

John

 

First

 

The VFW and the American Legion are not political organizations and do not endorse candidates. If you speak to a members on political subjects their opinions are their own. That does not mean their official representatives cannot speak to politicians on non partisan legislation dealing with veterans issues. Both the American Legion and VFW along with other veterans organization have worked hard to promote and get passed the new GI Bill for the 21st Century. Both presidential candidates were invited to speak at the last VFW convention and did so.

 

Second the VFW and The American Legion both not only invite younger members, but give free first year memberships to current military veterans eligible for membership.

 

Strange how veterans seem to make voting decisions right or wrong as do citizens. Oh, I forgot they are citizens.

 

Suggest Rocket do a little research of his own.

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Comments on various from above ^:

 

> About 3 years ago I did a fairly thorough count of the number and kinds of organizations who were making SURE deployed troops WERE receiving various kinds of care packages. At that time the count was up to 57 different groups, and that number has done nothing but increase - probably double that by now. The DoD even has its own office to coordinate some of that effort. Judging from what precious little we got in the 1960-70s, I have never heard nor seen the likes of the gargantuan effort being made by service organizations and private groups to keep our people supplied with personal goods since 2003.

 

> The voting records of Congress members are an extremely poor measure of their loyalties or their policies. MANY many many bills DESERVE to be defeated because of the manner in which they are customarily loaded up with totally irrelevant last-minute backroom deals that buy the votes for passage (or defeat, for that matter). It takes a lot of guts to defeat a piece of legislation when passing it would mean, as it often does, also approving of something completely on a tangent and against basic principles. I realize that opposition party groups and individuals traditionally focus on voting records, but a close look at that will usually demonstrate that MOST of US would have voted to defeat the thing ourselves when push came to shove. There are exceptions, but not very many.

 

> It may be that VN and later vets will eventually decide that we MUST come aboard to sustain the VFW and Legion... regardless of how we are treated. I am hoping that will come to pass. There are many NEW traditions that need to be inculcated within those two venerable organizations, without which they will surely perish like the Grand Old Army of the Republic did. The generational gap is there in some Posts, no doubt. I know of no other way to counter-measure that than by hanging in there, taking a seat, casting a vote, speaking up and serving on Honor Guard or whatever when possible or necessary.

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Gentlemen:

 

This is a lively and interesting discussion. The discussion highlights some of the problems that have always vexed volunteer Veteran Organizations. Please remember that these same problems were also faced by older veteran groups such as the GAR and UCV and are not new to present day organizations such as the American Legion or Veterans of Foreign Wars. When discussing these issues we ask that you remain civil in your language and discourse. The US Military Forum demands civility and we may be forced to edit your posts if you do not edit them yourselves. Please take a breath and think happy thoughts before you hit enter. :)

 

"Welcome to the VETERANS' ORGANIZATIONS Forum. We are happy to see you here to discuss all types of fraternal US Veterans' Organizations.

 

The forum is moderated by Kevin Beyer and Sarge who are both collectors of Veterans' Organization regalia. We welcome, and solicit, your participation! We are passionate about our interests and we want to discuss these things with other like minded individuals. No US Military Veteran item is too small to post. No question is too "dumb" to ask. No one should fail to participate because they feel they are inexperienced and please bear in mind that we are not "experts" in the field. Together, we may learn something new!

 

Please take time to read the Rules of Engagement set forth in the Welcome to the USMF Community found under New Member Introductions. Moderators will enforce the rules to ensure that we all engage in civil discourse at USMF. Opinions are welcome, honest disagreements will occur, and civility and collegiality will be the order of the day. All we ask is that you treat others as you would like to be treated. We are glad you are here!

 

Fraternally,

 

Kevin & Sarge"

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/rules/

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So maybe you haven't benefited from VFW or American Legion's legislation but I bet you have. BTW, you can still be a member of the national chapter and no one will twist your arm to have a drink or have you tell war stories.

 

I respectfully disagree with you on this issue. I got into many a heated debate with some local VFW members who would make comments like "Obama never served in uniform" and that "voting for a democrat was unpatriotic". I would then point out John McCain's appalling and shameful voting records on veterans benefits as well as the overall voting record of many of his fellow Republicans in congress. Of course many of them refuse to research the voting records of elected officials and prefer to just go through life as a "low information voter". I'm confused as to why some vets organizations would endorse a candidate or party which historically votes against their own self-interests? Voting for someone based solely on whether or not they served in uniform is just plain wrong. thumbdown.gif

 

I don't mean to get into a big pissing contest about politics so I'll just leave it at that. While I don't share some views on this subject I do respect everyone's opinion. The politics issue is just one of several concerns I have with the VFW and legion, especially at the local level. When they start welcoming some of the younger vets into the organization maybe I'll change my mind.

 

John

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First

 

The VFW and the American Legion are not political organizations and do not endorse candidates. If you speak to a members on political subjects their opinions are their own. That does not mean their official representatives cannot speak to politicians on non partisan legislation dealing with veterans issues. Both the American Legion and VFW along with other veterans organization have worked hard to promote and get passed the new GI Bill for the 21st Century. Both presidential candidates were invited to speak at the last VFW convention and did so.

 

Second the VFW and The American Legion both not only invite younger members, but give free first year memberships to current military veterans eligible for membership.

 

Strange how veterans seem to make voting decisions right or wrong as do citizens. Oh, I forgot they are citizens.

 

Suggest Rocket do a little research of his own.

 

You brought up some good points and I do agree that the VFW and Legion are NOT political organizations and do not endorse candidates. Unfortunately you wouldn't know it with some of the local chapters in this area. As I mentioned before...my beef is mainly at the local level and unfortunately there are a number of bad ones. I realize that a local member's political beliefs do NOT necessarily represent the entire vets organization as a whole.

 

Unfortunately some of these outspoken local members are just alienating others, like myself, who don't necessarily agree with their political views. I respect everyone's unique political views even if I don't agree with them. I just have a hard time renewing a membership to a local chapter whose members refuse to do the same. I draw the line when someone questions my patriotism to my country strictly because of my political beliefs.

 

After reading some of the positive comments about other vets groups around the country it's refreshing to know that there are some very active and friendly chapters which do a lot for the community. Unfortunately my experience has been just the opposite which is why I've decided to let my memberships lapse. If things change and new blood comes into the organizations I'll definitely reconsider joining again. Until then, this so-called "unpatriotic" veteran has other things to devote his time, money, and efforts to.

 

If I have offended anyone with my replies I truly apologize. This is a rather sore topic with me and have tried to be as polite, civil, and understanding as I can be and still get my point across.

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Unfortunately some of these outspoken local members are just alienating others, like myself, who don't necessarily agree with their political views. I respect everyone's unique political views even if I don't agree with them. I just have a hard time renewing a membership to a local chapter whose members refuse to do the same. I draw the line when someone questions my patriotism to my country strictly because of my political beliefs.

 

Regardless of what organization you belong to it is best to keep your political views to yourself. Religion and politics make bad topics of discussion in a crowd. If someone brings them up just smile and walk away.

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Regardless of what organization you belong to it is best to keep your political views to yourself. Religion and politics make bad topics of discussion in a crowd. If someone brings them up just smile and walk away.

 

Well said. I keep telling myself the exact same thing but one can only bite their lip for so long without saying something. ;)

 

John

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Well said. I keep telling myself the exact same thing but one can only bite their lip for so long without saying something. ;)

 

John

 

Generally the older you get the easier it gets to be. You learn in the long run 99% of it is not worth arguing about and that neither side is going to change the other's mind so why bother trying.

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I do the same.... at some point I implode. Back to the GI Bill.... I never read the actual Bill did you? Hard to say you’re for or against something that you know little about. I got my education under the old GI Bill but qualify for this one too.... is that fair? The high brass was against it also.... are they all bad guys too? I think those that voted against it did so to keep readiness up in a time of war.... maybe not such a bad idea.... mission first.... right? The Bill was endorsed by the VFW and American Legion.

 

Well said. I keep telling myself the exact same thing but one can only bite their lip for so long without saying something. ;)

 

John

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...The high brass was against it also.... are they all bad guys too? I think those that voted against it did so to keep readiness up in a time of war.... maybe not such a bad idea.... mission first.... right? The Bill was endorsed by the VFW and American Legion.

I think they were afraid NOT to support it, frankly. They had a chance to help the legislation get refined, but either didn't look deeply enough into it or wanted to get what we could when the opportunity was there.

 

The actual legislation is rather lengthy, as usual, and represents not so much a consensus as it does a compromise of extremes.

 

There ARE parts of it that are definitely going to present a lot of administrative headaches for vets and the VA and DoD alike - not to mention their spouses and kids. It was those parts that could, and probably should, have been refined prior to passage. But, it was presented as it was, and to be against it in part was interpreted by the sponsors and some veterans and most of the media as being against it entirely.

 

So, it got passed.

 

The bellyaching as a result will come much later when people start trying to collect on it down the road. The "fine points" will come back to haunt enough of a percentage that those sections will, I predict, BE changed in due time.

 

"Too bad" that some sincere people's reputations had to get tarnished in the battle... I guess is the way it's viewed.

 

Here's the link, if anyone cares to read it in full:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/

and

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:s2575:

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It will change next year.... the benefits will be a little better from what I understand.... back to school. pinch.gif

 

I think they were afraid NOT to support it, frankly. They had a chance to help the legislation get refined, but either didn't look deeply enough into it or wanted to get what we could when the opportunity was there.

 

The actual legislation is rather lengthy, as usual, and represents not so much a consensus as it does a compromise of extremes.

 

There ARE parts of it that are definitely going to present a lot of administrative headaches for vets and the VA and DoD alike - not to mention their spouses and kids. It was those parts that could, and probably should, have been refined prior to passage. But, it was presented as it was, and to be against it in part was interpreted by the sponsors and some veterans and most of the media as being against it entirely.

 

So, it got passed.

 

The bellyaching as a result will come much later when people start trying to collect on it down the road. The "fine points" will come back to haunt enough of a percentage that those sections will, I predict, BE changed in due time.

 

"Too bad" that some sincere people's reputations had to get tarnished in the battle... I guess is the way it's viewed.

 

Here's the link, if anyone cares to read it in full:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/

and

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:s2575:

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The American Legion and VFW really shot themselves in the foot when they rejected Vietnam vets for "losing" the war. Their membership is dying off and the new blood that could have infused their organizations didn't come forth.

 

I joined the VFW briefly after a member told me they could help with a service related injury claim. They did help me and continue to aid veterans in this regard. In fact membership not is required to gain their assistance.

 

I was put off when the secretary from the local post came over to my house to enroll me. He was obviously drunk and smelled "like a hot mince pie". I didn't appreciate my wife and kid seeing that sort of thing. I attended one meeting when I was initiated and that was it. I'm not a big drinker and really didn't have alot of spare time to hang out at the post bar so I let my membership lapse.

 

I am a member of the 1st Cavalry Association but that's it as far as veteran's groups go.

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I was put off when the secretary from the local post came over to my house to enroll me. He was obviously drunk and smelled "like a hot mince pie". I didn't appreciate my wife and kid seeing that sort of thing. I attended one meeting when I was initiated and that was it.

 

Initiated? All I did was fillout an online form and about week later received a welcome packet with my membership card. A few months later I received a very nice letter from the local post asking me to transfer my membership from the post at large to the local post. No big fuss, no initiation, just welcome to the local post. This all took place in the last 18 months, I am not a long time member having only joined after I retired in 2006.

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As has been said already if you don't like the local chapter join the national chapter.... no one will twist your arm for a drink or want you to tell them a war story. If you want to remain limp that's fine just don't whine when your rights are taken away.

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The American Legion and VFW really shot themselves in the foot when they rejected Vietnam vets for "losing" the war. Their membership is dying off and the new blood that could have infused their organizations didn't come forth.

 

I joined the VFW briefly after a member told me they could help with a service related injury claim. They did help me and continue to aid veterans in this regard. In fact membership not is required to gain their assistance.

 

I was put off when the secretary from the local post came over to my house to enroll me. He was obviously drunk and smelled "like a hot mince pie". I didn't appreciate my wife and kid seeing that sort of thing. I attended one meeting when I was initiated and that was it. I'm not a big drinker and really didn't have a lot of spare time to hang out at the post bar so I let my membership lapse.

 

I am a member of the 1st Cavalry Association but that's it as far as veteran's groups go.

 

At the last VFW National Convention (in 2006) I attended there was a hand count of veterans from different actions, while not the majority the largest percentage present were Vietnam Veterans. (as am I) Also present, Granada, Somalia, Desert Storm, Korea, WWII etc. Vietnam veterans were not excluded from membership "for losing the war". By the time Vietnam ended they were eligible, the problem was the membership had to vote a change to it's by-laws that stated membership had to be a veteran of a foreign war to read overseas hostilities. Then it had to be approved by Congress as the VFW and American Legion have Congressional Charters. I used to believe the same as gunbunny until I learned different. Of course, I am sure that some of the old guard fought this change back then, as they did allowing women service members to join until 1972. I do hope everyone is aware that women can join.

 

As stated in "gunbunny" post the VFW supplies for free Paid Professional Service Officers to help all veterans with VA claims. It also has a 24/7/365 Hotline to help all veterans (800-VFW-Help). Membership in the VFW is not required. The American Legion also has a similar program as I believe do a few other veterans organizations.

 

Can not comment on how drunk gunbunny's recruiter was, except to say that apparently he was not so drunk he could not process the application for membership.

Unfortunately some can't get past the bar to see that most work accomplished by the VFW gets done at Post meetings and not in the bar. (If a post has one). Not that it matters, but since I don't drink at all I can't speak to much about what happens in a Post bar. Bars don't make good "poster boys" for any organization.

 

To see examples of VFW programs go to:

 

http://www.jointheelite.org/tellmemore.html

 

Then click on various topics to see more. Including a breakdown of new members from the last year 90,000.

 

You don't see much about these programs in the news. Why? Because it is not new, the VFW has been doing these types of programs for over 100 years.

 

From experience I know that it seems like younger veterans don"t join veterans organizations. I didn't when I was younger, as I did not have the time or money to support them. The younger veterans do join, they just have a hard time being active, as they spend most of their time raising families and trying to make ends meet. Know that I am older I do have more time (not much more money) so I can support them.

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American Legion free individual assistance for veterans (or active duty for that matter, when/if needed) works as follows:

 

Each District echelon has one elected Service Officer (I am the one for our District), serving all Posts within that region. Larger Posts (in big cities) may have their own Service Officer.

 

Each Department (i.e. the State level) has one paid Service Officer, who often has an office at a regional VA medical facility.

 

These guys help with accurate VA/DoD information and processing claims or beefs. We are string pullers and red tape cutters to every extent possible. We also serve the immediate families of veterans or actives if needed.

 

While some members may smart off and form cliques (no different than in normal life), these Service Officers can be depended upon to not give a rat's WHICH war (or NO war) you were part of... and don't care if you are a member of the Legion or not.

 

Link see:

http://www.legion.org/homepage.php

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  • 3 months later...

I just found this thread (in fact, I just found this whole Veterans' Organizations area), and I think this is an interesting topic and discussion. I want to weigh in with a group not yet mentioned in this discussion:

 

I was a member of the Italian American War Veterans, Illinois Post #1 (Filippo Mazzei) from 1998 to 2007. I joined, like Bluehawk, mostly out of a sense of history and tradition. I live in southern Illinois, and the nearest Posts are in Chicago (there are, as you might imagine, quite a few Posts in Chicago), and I really cannot afford the time to attend meetings, so I let my membership lapse. I will possibly rejoin at some time because they do support hospitalized veterans in the Chicago area. I might join the VFW and/or the American Legion at some time. My father was also a member of the American Legion briefly in the 1950s.

 

I plan to post some photos of Italian American War Veterans memorabilia soon -- I have some medals, lapel pins, and miscellaneous "stuff" to show.

Thanks,

Pete

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Pete,

 

We would love to see your Italian-American War Veterans memorabilia. I am not familiar with the organization except to know that it exists. Please show us what you have.

 

I really think that one gets out of an organization what one puts into it. But, things change over time. I was involved with the Sons of Union Veterans for years but I never could never get into the dress up re-enacting part of the organization so I slowly dropped out over time. I still believe in the value of the SV but I am no longer active in my local organization. I think we are all that way and if the organization does not meet our needs, or we can't fit in well enough, members drop out. There will always be a core of people who drive any group and that core group changes from time to time.

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I was in the USAF from 1955 to 1959 and spent some time in Germany but the dates make me ineligible for both the VFW and the American Legion.

 

I sometimes stop by the Coyote Den at the local National Guard camp as a guest of a retired Army friend.

 

He is also member of the VFW and I have gone there with him a few times but anyone can go there to drink and BS. BS is the keyword - seems like there are a lot of phonies bragging about stuff they never did and about being someone that they never were. That and the great amount of cigarette smoke keep me away from there.

 

I get the VFW and American Legion magazines from another friend when he is through with them and I do enjoy reading them.

 

I do have a VA card so probably I have benefited from VFW or American Legion's legislation efforts or possibly will in the future.

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I was in the USAF from 1955 to 1959 and spent some time in Germany but the dates make me ineligible for both the VFW and the American Legion.

 

I sometimes stop by the Coyote Den at the local National Guard camp as a guest of a retired Army friend.

 

He is also member of the VFW and I have gone there with him a few times but anyone can go there to drink and BS. BS is the keyword - seems like there are a lot of phonies bragging about stuff they never did and about being someone that they never were. That and the great amount of cigarette smoke keep me away from there.

 

I get the VFW and American Legion magazines from another friend when he is through with them and I do enjoy reading them.

 

I do have a VA card so probably I have benefited from VFW or American Legion's legislation efforts or possibly will in the future.

An organization you might enjoy is the Air Force Association. Doesn't matter when you served, or even if you ever served, just pay the dues and your in. It was originally set up for AAF vets back in the 40's, but is a national organization with local chapters in some areas. Just do a simple internet search & you should be able to locate their website pretty easily. I've been a member for many years and recommend it.

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An organization you might enjoy is the Air Force Association. Doesn't matter when you served, or even if you ever served, just pay the dues and your in. It was originally set up for AAF vets back in the 40's, but is a national organization with local chapters in some areas. Just do a simple internet search & you should be able to locate their website pretty easily. I've been a member for many years and recommend it.

Second that...

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Thanks, Lee and Bluehawk. I see that there is a Chapter listed for the city I live in. The local chapter web site has expired but I may check into it and consider joining.

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