Jump to content

Vietnam helicopter patch ID please: A Battery/ 377th Artillery aviation


Phantomf4

Recommended Posts

Anyone know what unit this was attributed to? I think there was a platoon with the callsign gunner then changed there name. ideas?

post-153748-0-28514500-1468643353.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
1SG_1st_Cav

A-377th FA was a Field Artillery Aviation Observation Battery. It did not LIFT Field Artillery weapons.

This unit performed the same function as E Battery, 82nd FA did with the 1st Cavalry Division [AIRMOBILE].

 

Both divisions used the identical TO&E [Table of Organization & Equipment] for AIRMOBILE Divisions that was put into affect in June 1968.

Both units flew light two-seat fix wing planes [aka O-1E Bird Dogs] and LOH [Light Observation Helicopters] helicopters.

Been there, done that!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me suggest that what was followed in one unit may not have been what was followed in another. It's clear from the detail of these patches that UH-1's and OH-6's existed in A/377. No indication of any fixed wings. A UH-1 is capable of lifting smaller field guns into otherwise inaccessible areas such as hilltop firing position. Deviations from TOE can be made when a situation demands it.

 

IH

post-12336-0-61791600-1468845940.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Load lifting capacity of the UH-1H is 2,200 lbs plus weight of crew (3). Cargo hook capacity of UH-1 is 4,000 lbs. Weight of M-116 75mm gun is 2,341 lbs. Reducing the fuel load of the UH-1 by half (1200 lbs-600 lbs) gives UH-1 load lifting capacity of 2,800 lbs with 1 hour flight duration. Yes, the UH-1H could lift small artillery pieces.

 

IH

UH-1 crewchief/gunner

11years, 1,000+ flight hours

Been there, done that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me suggest that what was followed in one unit may not have been what was followed in another. It's clear from the detail of these patches that UH-1's and OH-6's existed in A/377. No indication of any fixed wings. A UH-1 is capable of lifting smaller field guns into otherwise inaccessible areas such as hilltop firing position. Deviations from TOE can be made when a situation demands it.

 

IH

attachicon.gif377 001.jpg

 

Oh great!! Now you just put 3 more patches on my list to find! Thanks a lot! HA HA just kidding of course, the info here is wonderful, I appreciate you sharing the pictures of your patches.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
firefighter

I sure wish the people designing these patches would think of future collectors and have some kind of unit id on them. Is that asking too much? LoL!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is another unclear meaning. These are obviously from A/377- 101st Abn because they say so. The Eagle is an obvious link to the 101st Abn. What is unclear is why the Eagle clutches what appear to be rocket tubes like those carried on helicopter gunships. A/377 was located at Gia Le from 1968-1972 along with Division HQ. Colocated at Gia Le was the 4/77 Arerial Rocket Artillery from 1968-1970. Nothing proves it but I would hazard a WAG that these units worked closely with one another for a significant period of time.

 

IH

post-12336-0-46676800-1468875804.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

AND....another one to put on my list!!!!! Man this just keeps getting better. So that's what at least 5 different patches from one unit?

Link to post
Share on other sites

5 that I know of. A variation or two even more could easily exist as having things made back then was quick and cheap.

 

IH

Link to post
Share on other sites
Patchcollector

Nothing proves it but I would hazard a WAG that these units worked closely with one another for a significant period of time.

 

IH

 

 

 

It appears that this unit was an "element" of the 101st from 1957-86

I found this info about the 377th online:

Reorganized and redesignated 25 April 1957 as Battery A, 377th Artillery, an element of the 101st Airborne Division

Inactivated 21 May 1965 at Fort Campbell, Kentucky

Activated 20 December 1968 in Vietnam

Redesignated 1 September 1971 as Battery A, 377th Field Artillery

Inactivated 15 June 1986 at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and relieved from assignment to the 101st Airborne Division

 

Here is a link to the site where I found the info:

 

 

http://www.history.army.mil/html/forcestruc/lineages/branches/fa/0377fa01bn.htm

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gunner Lift. The UH-1s were used to transport personnel and equipment assigned to the unit. The FA BNs assigned to 1st Cav and 101st Abn were 105mm as I recall. At least I never heard of or saw 75mm guns assigned. I could be wrong. Also, I have never seen a UH-1 lifting any 105s. The Hooks ( Ch-47s) did that all of the time as did the Cranes ( Ch-54s). I admit I was flying B model Huey Hog's so we were never asked to lift anything except our 48 2.75" FFARs and at times due to high DAs we could hardly do that ( Central Highland elevation on a hot day would be near 6-7000 feet.Groan!.} I DID attempt to lift a water trailer ( empty) once. Yes did get it airborne and at about a thousand feet it started swinging. Punched it off and it disappeared completely into a paddy. Completely. As another aside, E/82nd 1st Cav in my day had OH-13s and 1/9th Cav had same as Scouts! One of my class mates flew them in 1/9 and had some fun days ( as recalled now). Patches. A nice group would be to get original Cav ARA Unit patches as well as 101st AFA, plus the FA Units Gunner Lift, etc. Might take awhile and some are quiet expensive today ( Blue Max Original, C/2/20th ARA, and C/4/77 AFA run 125 up,in fact all the ARA and AFA are in this group and the Gunner Lift should be 50-75 I would think. These would be again Original made in VN DURING 1965 -1972.Also, C Battery, 2/20th and C Battery 4/77AFA were the Griffins and used same patch design with Cav and 101st small shield in them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1SG_1st_Cav

We did not use 75mm Howitzers in Vietnam. So you can cross that off of your list. Find a copy of Shelby Stanton's VIETNAM ORDER OF BATTLE. He shows every type of weapon used in the Vietnam war. I was a Field Artilleryman for 20 years and I served in Vietnam 1967-68, and I also was a Senior Field Artillery Instructor in the Gunnery Department at Fort Sill 1969-1970.

Also, look for a copy of "Vietnam Studies, Field Artillery 1954-1973, Written By Major General David E. Ott. Page 49 will identify the types of Field Artillery weapons that were used. It will also explain the weight of an M101A1 105mm Howitzer was 2.5 Tons (5000 lbs), and an M102 105mm Howitzer weighed 1.5 tons [3,000 lbs]. Do your research and find the documented facts. Right now you are just speculating.

 

FIELD ARTILLERY IS THE KING OF BATTLE!

 

30MED.BMP

post-1691-0-59166200-1469370517.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

While the 75mm isn't listed as being used by the US, the ARVN did use them. They were in country. And let's use your own quoted data. The M-102 105mm howitzer weighs 3,000 lbs. What if you take the wheels off? Let's just guess you reduce the weight to 2,500 pounds. Already stated that a UH-1 can carry 2,800 pounds externally with a reduced fuel load. That's not speculation. So in theory the gun being depicted as being lifted could in fact have been an M-102. One helicopter carrying the gun and one carrying the wheels could do the job. It would be more expedient for a Chinook to do it though. But the whole thing could also be a metaphor. Gunner Lift is moving assets of A/377 around.

 

IH

Link to post
Share on other sites
Patchcollector

But the whole thing could also be a metaphor. Gunner Lift is moving assets of A/377 around.

 

IH

 

I was thinking about that possibility too."Gunner Lift" could mean Missions moving anything related to FA,and the gun that is depicted on the patch could be symbolic.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Using Shelby Stanton's books come with a caveat. Facts he quotes have been found to be wrong, not by his mistake but by the mistake of the US Army's own compilations. He also missed things entirely, like the use of TOW missiles in Vietnam, both ground mounted and carried by NUH-1B helicopters, the 1st Avn Brigade's "Hawk's Claw". This was a major development tested in Vietnam that was overlooked. The "STAR TREK" FLIR deployment isn't chronicled nor is the YO-3A Quiet Star surveillance platform. Another thing that was passed over was Detachment level units. The LEFT BANK system is not detailed nor are the Chemical Detcahments that operated the "people sniffer" units. One does have to give Stanton tremendous credit for what he did but it's not the be all-do all of reference material.

 

IH

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gunner Lift....Lift just refers to the fact that the UH1 was a Lift ship just as the Assault Helicopter Companies were LIFT Companies as opposed to Aerial Rocket Units ( The Lift Companies had a Platoon of Gunships also). I think for what ever reason you are trying to state that the UH1 of the Gunner Lift ( which was a HQ section by the way) would lift a 105 into a firing position some where. You need to maybe pay attention to the Senior FA NCOs statements and maybe my own. We were there. You were not. The patch is what it is so quit trying to build on it please. Most Cav and 101 FA BNs had UH1s assigned to them for their use which was NOT lifting artillery.

Stanton did a hell of a job on his books and if he missed some minor units TS! By the way one of my now deceased friends flew one of the four UH1B TOW ships on his 2nd tour.

My background is FYI CW4 MAA 3000+ UH1 and I NEVER saw a UH1 lift a 105 with or without wheels! LOL!

Link to post
Share on other sites
firefighter

Gunner Lift....Lift just refers to the fact that the UH1 was a Lift ship just as the Assault Helicopter Companies were LIFT Companies as opposed to Aerial Rocket Units ( The Lift Companies had a Platoon of Gunships also). I think for what ever reason you are trying to state that the UH1 of the Gunner Lift ( which was a HQ section by the way) would lift a 105 into a firing position some where. You need to maybe pay attention to the Senior FA NCOs statements and maybe my own. We were there. You were not. The patch is what it is so quit trying to build on it please. Most Cav and 101 FA BNs had UH1s assigned to them for their use which was NOT lifting artillery.

Stanton did a hell of a job on his books and if he missed some minor units TS! By the way one of my now deceased friends flew one of the four UH1B TOW ships on his 2nd tour.

My background is FYI CW4 MAA 3000+ UH1 and I NEVER saw a UH1 lift a 105 with or without wheels! LOL!

 

Thank you for the information Chief & Top.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Gunner Lift....Lift just refers to the fact that the UH1 was a Lift ship just as the Assault Helicopter Companies were LIFT Companies as opposed to Aerial Rocket Units ( The Lift Companies had a Platoon of Gunships also). I think for what ever reason you are trying to state that the UH1 of the Gunner Lift ( which was a HQ section by the way) would lift a 105 into a firing position some where. You need to maybe pay attention to the Senior FA NCOs statements and maybe my own. We were there. You were not. The patch is what it is so quit trying to build on it please. Most Cav and 101 FA BNs had UH1s assigned to them for their use which was NOT lifting artillery.

Stanton did a hell of a job on his books and if he missed some minor units TS! By the way one of my now deceased friends flew one of the four UH1B TOW ships on his 2nd tour.

My background is FYI CW4 MAA 3000+ UH1 and I NEVER saw a UH1 lift a 105 with or without wheels! LOL!

 

You don't know me nor me you. You know nothing of my service record, it's irrelevant here anyway. Don't insult me.

No one person served long enough or with enough units to definitively pass any judgements about something they might not have seen.

No one has claimed to have served with A/377 therefor none here yet knows exactly what that patch may mean.

 

IH

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Easy fellows, I was just trying to find out what unit it was from. I appreciate all the input and information. It could be that the Huey symbolizes the type of helicopter and the artillery piece symbolizes they where a artillery unit?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.