29 infantry division patch British made

[respectingthesacrifice]

Hello All,

 

Just received a new version (new for my collection!) of a beautiful British made 29 Infantry and wanted to share. Nice bright colors for this one

 

Eric

 

 

[David D]

Very nice patch!

[BILL THE PATCH]

She's a beaut!, It's missing from my collection, maybe I'll find one sooner or later.

 

Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Patchcollector]

That is a super example,and it looks like it may have been worn too.

[crashdive]

Pretty awesome example!

[Midwestern85]

Could someone please enlighten a newbie? What makes this British- the black return threads?

[patches]

Excellent

[Patchcollector]

Could someone please enlighten a newbie? What makes this British- the black return threads?

 

 

That and also the light green border

[warcollect1942]

Nice British 29th.

[respectingthesacrifice]

 

 

That and also the light green border

And the oval shape of the patch

 

Thanks all for kind comments

[Teamski]

I'm a BIG sucker for British patches. Nice one!

[gomorgan]

Great patch missing from a lot of collections including mine...

[Thor996]

And the oval shape of the patch

 

Thanks all for kind comments

 

thanks for explaining.

[Midwestern85]

Yes- thanks!

[jw1969]

Could someone please enlighten a newbie? What makes this British- the black return threads?

 

If someone could post a WW2 US made 29th next to it to compare? I'm working from my tablet now and I'm not able to post one...

 

Characteristics of a British made patch:

- as mentioned, the OD border, if there's one, is more pale than a US made border. Often light green or light brownish.

- many patches which should be round shaped when US made, have an oval shape. However there are round British ones too.

- the design colors of the patch often are very pale. This one has exceptionnally bright colors.

- lots of British made patches have black, yellow, red, or other colored back thread. Although there are British made patches with white colored back thread. With the 29th like this one, it's very often to have a black back.

- the patches are often a bit smaller than their US made counterparts.

- the embroidery pattern with British made patches is very irregular. The pattern of US made patches is very much regular. Only a very small part of the US made patches has irregular embroidery... may be not even 0,1%, and this is very likely because of being worn a long time.

- the embroidery loops are longer than with their US made counterparts.

- British made fully machine-embroidered cut edge patches have a more silky kind of look, are very soft and supple (even more than their US made counterparts). Note: I say "fully machine-embroidered" here because the British companies also made patches printed on canvas, and patches partially machine-embroidered on wool, felt, cotton...

 

May be others can fill in some others, but I guess this is most important...

 

H.

[warcollect1942]

Here is my 29th British and a US 29th. The embroidery on my Brit 29th

is different. The border is darker on the US made.

[jw1969]

Here is my 29th British and a US 29th. The embroidery on my Brit 29th

is different. The border is darker on the US made.

 

Thx for posting one, Dennis !!

[blau-und-weiss]

would the greenback patches be British made?

[warcollect1942]

Greenbacks are considered US made. British is more known for black backs.

There are always exceptions in patches.

[mortaydc60]

Not so fast. I was in the class when we all thoudht that the black back indicated British manufacture. At last years SOS the leading British authority on cloth patches stopped by my tables and asked me ,"Why do Americans think that a patch with a black back is British?" He says we are wrong,they did NOT use black backs!

[tredhed2]

Mort, it's not just the black backs, it's the tan borders. Your expert has no answer for that. The Trading Post is a great source of info.

[phillock]

Below is a British WWII wing and HQETOUSA COMZ.

 

There is another British wing with maroon or red bobbin thread and gets associated with either 1st or 6th Airborne Div. can't remember which,because one was found on a patched uniform,however it has not been documented or proven.

 

I do have other British made WWII patches (Both for US and British Units)in my collection that are blacked backed either fully or using black bobbin thread.

 

Both US and British collectors have hard and fast guidelines, based on their respective and accepted collecting history,as an example the British collector care in which direction the weave goes on WWII era shoulder cloth title letters and seraphs ie ///// with the US collector (British made US SSI with letters or Airborne tabs) they don't care which direction the weave on letters,as long as it fits what we accept as British made WWII era.

Not to sure how the expert made his decision but I can summarize the following:

 

• He doesn't know about the history and manufacturing of British made US patches.during WWII.
• He follows the guidelines of the British single needle silk thread spaghetti weave reverse look , c1940-44/45.
• Probably has no interest in the reverse thread of British cloth(as opposed to US collectors) woven or embroided formation signs, Cloth titles since the majority never used the same technique as the US due to British war time constraints and production cost.

Would of been good to listen to his views.

 

 

Phill

[mortaydc60]

Maybe what he was trying to say was "just because it has a black back does not mean it is British manufacture". The expert is the number one manufacturer of insignia in England and has been in the business 30 + years.

[Gunslinger]

Very nice English made 29th ID insignia.

 

The patch is easily identified as being English made just by the manufacture weave as Hans has pointed out, the weave is longer in comparison to American manufactured insignia. Another determining factor to take into account is English made cut edge insignia were made with silk versus rayon threads which are commonly found on U.S. manufacture insignia during the time period.

 

I believe what Mort was trying to say, not all insignia produced with a black back were manufactured in England. This absolutely correct since most encountered black back insignia were produced by either the U.S., English or German (Post war) manufacturers.

 

A vast majority of English made shoulder titles were produced with a oblique (often referred to as Aldershot weave) embroidery, meaning the embroidery was on an angle \\\\\ or ///// as displayed in the image below. However there were very few shoulder titles produced with a horizontal embroidery as made by Canadian and U.S. manufacturers. The English made titles were embroidered in either Silk or Wool versus rayon threads which are commonly found on U.S. manufacture insignia. English made shoulder titles should never display a so called ' spaghetti weave ' to the reverse, this type of embroidery can be commonly found on post war reproductions. The embroidery should be tight and should not be a bunched up mess to the reverse.

Below are some examples showing English manufacture

CDub

[BROBS]

 

I believe what Mort was trying to say, not all insignia produced with a black back were manufactured in England. This absolutely correct since most encountered black back insignia were produced by either the U.S., English or German (Post war) manufacturers.

 

absolutely agree with this..

 

the border and embroidery style to me is what tells British.