Vietnam MACV-SOG Grouping

[IKEsaysGO44]

He was a Ranger Instructor at the Thai Ranger School in 1970. The 46th, correct me if I am wrong, was one of only a few SF Detachments/ Companies authorized to wear the black beret, even on patrols.

 

The Thai Rangers wore black berets and black fatigues.

 

Thanks for the comments guys.

[GIKyle]

Thanks for showing- Looking forward to seeing more. Any citations to share so we can learn more about this hero?

 

Kyle

[Andrei]

Nice grouping but shame the original owner ruined his jacket by removing the name tape.

[IKEsaysGO44]

Thanks, Kyle.

 

He has spoken very little about his decorations and actions. Some talk about the intensity of firefights, ambushes, attacks, and week long patrols, which knife was his 'favorite', the effects of the M79 'Thumper' and his trusted M60 'Pig.'

 

Most of what we have discussed over bourbon he has asked to not share. Those are his wishes, not mine. His own children (one of which I currently serve with) know very little about his career.

 

I will say he had a very clandestine military career that continted well into the 80s.

[paul_bish]

Great grouping, thanks for posting

[IKEsaysGO44]

Thanks, Paul.

[Ronny67]

Ronny likey

[GIKyle]

Thanks, Kyle.

 

He has spoken very little about his decorations and actions. Some talk about the intensity of firefights, ambushes, attacks, and week long patrols, which knife was his 'favorite', the effects of the M79 'Thumper' and his trusted M60 'Pig.'

 

Most of what we have discussed over bourbon he has asked to not share. Those are his wishes, not mine. His own children (one of which I currently serve with) know very little about his career.

 

I will say he had a very clandestine military career that continted well into the 80s.

.

 

Quite understandable. It may be interesting to google his name with to see what comes up (provided the citations are unclassified)- it may help give you context to what he is saying.

 

Kyle

[IKEsaysGO44]

Agreed.

 

He told me today his assignment with the 46th, only being 3 months, was a filler position after a stint in the hospital while awaitinmg assignment on another team near Laos.

 

I did ask him about the Tiger Stripes, since we know the trousers are TSP and 80s Era clothing. He said he found three other sets recently and will let me take my pick. He did not recall buying any Tiger Stripes for parades, but mentioned he may have purchased them for an assignment in South America.

 

With a lot of curse words, he eloquently stated it was 40+ years ago and how should he remember every pair of pants he ever had?!

 

Gerber and Randall are still in the works along with some Foreign Uniforms and Green Berets.

 

Will post more when they come. I definitely appreciate the comments.

 

Andrew

[doyler]

Andrew

 

Thanks for sharing.When you mentioned he served into the 80s my first thought was he may have worn the tigers in central America.Knew a couple guys that were in Elsalvador and Honduras and they bought tigers to wear there.

[manayunkman]

I would be very careful when questioning him about anything.

 

Kyle has offered great advice.

 

Google his name and see what comes up.

 

When it comes to talking to vets, especially one who is tough like this guy is, knowing something about them, their unit or location makes a big difference.

 

It turns a question and answer session into a conversation and if the vet gets a feel that you know something about what he is talking about he will open up more.

 

Especially if he thinks that you understand him.

 

I'm not talking about some psychological ploy (he will se right through that) to get him to talk but an understanding of who he is.

 

Many of these guys don't think or care, in some cases, that anyone will understand them so they don't talk.

 

Your military background is a big help I'm sure, couple that with some background knowledge of his units and things could go better.

 

If something doesn't seam right about his things (the 1980 tigers) don't challenge him but ask him when he wore it which is a soft question as opposed to saying these aren't Vietnam.

 

I'm not saying you did that because I know you didn't but you get my drift.

 

Frankly I'm really not qualified, in a professional way, to give advice but at one time I did have several hundred recordings of veteran interviews I did.

 

Anyway much luck and please keep us up to date.

 

Peter

[IKEsaysGO44]

We share combat stories - that is usually what sparks his talking about combat. My stories are usually trumped by phrases of "Country Club" or "they don't call it Special Farces for nothin'." I could never compare my encounters with his of fighting off a 1,200 man NVA night attack.

 

I tread lightly as he has withheld his personal accounts for decades, and when he is ready to talk - I let him and listen attentively. He never discloses specific locations, only countries, and never names - only nicknames.

 

He is a mystery - even to his children. They don't ask. I spend the hot summer days outside with him when I can - he smokes his Camels and drinks his drink and I just listen. We enjoy it and I think that is why he has been as open with me as he has been - even giving me some of his personal items because he knows I collect and research, and will appreciate them.

 

I googled his name a while ago, and again today - and found nothing. I have known his son (my neighbor) for three years, and every year since then at the 5th SFG(A) Group Reunion, I ask as many Vietnam SF Vets, and MACV-SOG Vets as I can if they know or served with him - all say no. I think some of his time was on an SF Operational Detachment- Alpha, some was with the MACV-SOG, but I think a majority (due to his accounts) of his time was strictly off the record, off the grid.

 

Andrew

[doyler]

Andrew

 

You have approached this well and often just letting the veteran talk will be the best.Some memories will spur others.I recently Met a vet.We hit it off very well.He was SF on tour one.The conversation flowed and I didnt pry or try to quiz him or dazzle with collector speak.He has invited me back and agreed to an interview.Even wants to buy lunch.

 

Listening is usually the best and they will tell you what they feel comfortable with.Most havent spoken to the family. The day he and I met his grandson was there and didnt seem to be the least intrested.Most are very humble a d private individuals and Im not surprised his isnt google-able.In my case I havent even tried.Havent mentioned his name to others even.I respect his privacy a d his trust in shAring his stories.

[IKEsaysGO44]

Andrew

 

You have approached this well and often just letting the veteran talk will be the best.Some memories will spur others.I recently Met a vet.We hit it off very well.He was SF on tour one.The conversation flowed and I didnt pry or try to quiz him or dazzle with collector speak.He has invited me back and agreed to an interview.Even wants to buy lunch.

 

Listening is usually the best and they will tell you what they feel comfortable with.Most havent spoken to the family. The day he and I met his grandson was there and didnt seem to be the least intrested.Most are very humble a d private individuals and Im not surprised his isnt google-able.In my case I havent even tried.Havent mentioned his name to others even.I respect his privacy a d his trust in shAring his stories.

 

Much appreciated and I agree 100%.

 

Thanks.

Andrew

[firefighter]

Have you tried 'WHO'S WHO IN MACV-SOG'? It is a great reference book.It has paid for itself many times over.I also have the awards booklet for SVNSF wings.

[e19]

We share combat stories - that is usually what sparks his talking about combat. My stories are usually trumped by phrases of "Country Club" or "they don't call it Special Farces for nothin'." I could never compare my encounters with his of fighting off a 1,200 man NVA night attack.

 

I tread lightly as he has withheld his personal accounts for decades, and when he is ready to talk - I let him and listen attentively. He never discloses specific locations, only countries, and never names - only nicknames.

 

He is a mystery - even to his children. They don't ask. I spend the hot summer days outside with him when I can - he smokes his Camels and drinks his drink and I just listen. We enjoy it and I think that is why he has been as open with me as he has been - even giving me some of his personal items because he knows I collect and research, and will appreciate them.

 

I googled his name a while ago, and again today - and found nothing. I have known his son (my neighbor) for three years, and every year since then at the 5th SFG(A) Group Reunion, I ask as many Vietnam SF Vets, and MACV-SOG Vets as I can if they know or served with him - all say no. I think some of his time was on an SF Operational Detachment- Alpha, some was with the MACV-SOG, but I think a majority (due to his accounts) of his time was strictly off the record, off the grid.

 

Andrew

Off the record, off the grid....more often than not means it's bull shinola.

 

BTW, 18B MOS didn't exist until '84....no such animal during the Nam era.

[paul_bish]

Have you tried 'WHO'S WHO IN MACV-SOG'? It is a great reference book.It has paid for itself many times over.I also have the awards booklet for SVNSF wings.

I agree and there is also one to cover Thailand

[e19]

Here's a list of DSC recipients during the Vietnam War.

 

http://valor.defense.gov/Portals/24/Documents/ServiceCross/ArmyDSC-Vietnam.pdf

[IKEsaysGO44]

 

Off the record, off the grid....more often than not means it's bull shinola.

 

Oh no kidding - you were MACV-SOG in Vietnam, and Special Forces for 20+ years too?

[manayunkman]

Let's not go there or this will get closed down.

 

It's like profiling, yes sometimes it's like shinola but a lot of the time it isn't.

 

It's a valid statement in this time of stolen valor but it doesn't mean that's the case here.

 

There was or still is a guy from Steelton, Pa. who was always set up at Saturday's Market who wore a miniature Distinguished Service Cross on his cap.

 

He was off the grid in Nam and "couldn't talk about it".

 

Had a very good SF friend at the Carlisle War College look him up to no avail.

 

Some years after that I get a call from my Yellow Pages ad and it's this guys son with a pile of medals mounted in a case and 2 jungle jackets with SF insignia.

 

I walked on it as the whole thing didn't ad up and his dad was still alive.

 

The next time I saw the father I told him and he told me the son had stolen it.

 

That's just one weird story of many.

[IKEsaysGO44]

I got it.

 

I've been very discrete about his service - I know, but these are his wishes. I have spoken to him about numerous engagements, incidents, and world tours and I have treaded lightly and tried to generalize these discussions to back up his uniforms I have posted.

 

Because I say he had a very clandestine career is nothing but the truth - and how am I to back it up? I can't. But to question my comments and his service and story is not right.

 

I know all about stolen valor. I am an active duty officer with 5th SFG (A) and see it more times than we care to share. I get the skepticism.

 

I will post some more items when I have something else to show everyone.

[manayunkman]

When you have relationship like you do with your background you know what you know.

 

I for one do not question at all your ability to discern who it is you are talking to.

 

My point was to not take offense to e19's comment.

 

He is making a generalized statement.

 

Perhaps he was trying to say be on guard.

[firefighter]

This forum is about questions and questioning items.

 

I was not SF, MACV-SOG, Ranger, etc. but I served and have heard, and still do hear, stuff. I volunteer at the VA and you wouldn't believe how many Spec Op guys are there.Nobody wants to be a cook, not saying that is not worthy because ANYONE who served, no matter what they did, is a hero.

 

You do have some amazing stuff and I hope it all pans out.

[e19]

Here's a list of DSC recipients during the Vietnam War.

 

http://valor.defense.gov/Portals/24/Documents/ServiceCross/ArmyDSC-Vietnam.pdf

So, is your guy on the list? There were only around 60 DSCs awarded to SF'ers during that period.

[IKEsaysGO44]

I should have known better about the 18B MOS - he was an 11B. I saw the crossed rifles on his uniform, and asked in which he explained there was not a Special Forces Branch like there is today.

 

Saying 18B when referring to a Weapons Sergeant, which is how he described most of his duties, is just a habit.

 

Andrew