WW2 OR POST WW2 PARATROOPER WESTINGHOUSE LINER

[BND173D]

PICKED THIS UP THIS WEEK-END. JUST WANT TO KNOW IF WW2 , RIGGER DONE, OR POST WAR DONE. IT IS MARKED WESTINGHOUSE. HAVE HEARD THAT THESE BUCKLES WERE NOT USED ON WESTINGHOUSE LINERS. THANKS FOR ANY INFO. ED

[BND173D]

CLOSE-UP OF BUCKLE.

[MilitaryPicker1941]

I'm not a helmet guy but it definitely doesn't look rigger. Those usually have additional hardware for the a yokes. Don't know if it's wwii authentic (I'd guess it is) will wait for someone knowledgeable to chime in!

[sgtdorango]

Thats a nice factory westinghouse wire buckle para liner....opinions differ from very late ww2- to post war production....mike

[BND173D]

DID ANY OF THE POST WAR LINERS HAVE THE KHAKI WEBBING. THANKS FOR THE INFO GUYS. ED

[glenm]

No, they all had OD chinstrap webbing. This style of liner typically turns up used by the 11th AB post-WWII.

[Ronny67]

WELL THERE IS DEBATE AMONG COLLECTORS. IT'S A LATE WWII LINER WITH A FACTORY AIRBORNE CONVERSION. WE JUST DON'T KNOW IF THESE MADE IT INTO WWII COMBAT JUMPS UNTIL WE FIND A DEFINITIVE PHOTO OR SOURCE DOCUMENT TO PROVE IT.

 

I HAVE ONE THAT WAS USED IN KOREA, AND AM PROUD TO HAVE IT. NICE LINER, CONGRATS.

[jkash23686]

WELL THERE IS DEBATE AMONG COLLECTORS. IT'S A LATE WWII LINER WITH A FACTORY AIRBORNE CONVERSION. WE JUST DON'T KNOW IF THESE MADE IT INTO WWII COMBAT JUMPS UNTIL WE FIND A DEFINITIVE PHOTO OR SOURCE DOCUMENT TO PROVE IT.

 

I HAVE ONE THAT WAS USED IN KOREA, AND AM PROUD TO HAVE IT. NICE LINER, CONGRATS.

 

To me to call this 100% a late WWII liner isn't exactly accurate. It was either a late WWII as in or Korean era produced.....Thats the debate. The only documentation for Westinghouse found thus far calls for only the large green cast buckles being used in production during the war. There are those of us, without proof of either pics, documentation or iron clad provenance that would call this liner post war.

[Ronny67]

Jkash has got it

[glenm]

The speculation is usually - based on them being found (where identified) in post-war 11th Airborne usage (by the 11th Airborne decals on the sides) - that they are the last of the batch of Westinghouse production from early-mid 1945 and they substituted the buckles as they had run out of the cast ones.

 

Speculation only at present.

[BND173D]

THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO. IF I AM GETTING IT RIGHT. MADE TO LATE TO HAVE BEEN USED IN WW2, MOST LIKELY SURPLUS THAT WAS USED UP IN KOREAN WAR. THANKS ED

[Cdubs]

Didnt Inland send their parts and remaining shells to Westinghouse before the war ended? Is it possible that the Inland buckles ended up on the Westinghouse A yokes?

[jkash23686]

Didnt Inland send their parts and remaining shells to Westinghouse before the war ended? Is it possible that the Inland buckles ended up on the Westinghouse A yokes?

 

Not that I know of. Firestone got some of their molds after the war which is why you see inland over firestone liners.

[sgtdorango]

Inland wire buckles are shaped a little differently than the wire buckles on the westinghouse para liners....mike

[MoJ_1stID]

Late to the game here, but was compelled to comment. Westinghouse ceased ALL production of paratrooper specific liners as of September 1 1945. I recall reading some time ago (wish i could remember the source) that NO AIRBORNE LINERS were factory produced specifically for the Korean War, after 1945 or anytime between 1945 and 1950. All liners issued out in this time frame were either rigger-made (which became a necessity with increasing number of AB recruits and stacks of surplus WWII liners available from very manufacturer after the war) or surplus WWII production para-liners.

 

These wire buckle liners with A-yokes neatly installed under the crown and nape webbing were all likely factory-produced, as witnessed by the blackened brass and blackened brass rivets that appear untouched on most of the originals, including exterior paint. No steel rivets were used for these, as had been previously occasionally used for the Westy liners with cast buckles. I would estimate given all of the historical parameters and empirical evidence available that these liners were produced by Westinghouse in early to mid 1945. The sudden switch to wire buckles I feel can be easily explained by two factors, one - large cast buckle were not sufficiently flexible and were prone to breakage, two - cost of production.

 

I had also read another source quoting a late rush to produce airborne liners for the impending invasion of the Japanese mainland in order to outfit all of the reassigned airborne troops coming out of Europe immediately. Taking all of this information together, my sense is that these were indeed produced towards the end of WWII, possibly even after the German surrender, but never used in combat during WWII. I have owned several unissued ones taken directly from surplus at Ft Bragg NC.

Regards to all.

[VenitHora]

Nice liner!

[Ronny67]

Late to the game here, but was compelled to comment. Westinghouse ceased ALL production of paratrooper specific liners as of September 1 1945. I recall reading some time ago (wish i could remember the source) that NO AIRBORNE LINERS were factory produced specifically for the Korean War, after 1945 or anytime between 1945 and 1950. All liners issued out in this time frame were either rigger-made (which became a necessity with increasing number of AB recruits and stacks of surplus WWII liners available from very manufacturer after the war) or surplus WWII production para-liners.

 

These wire buckle liners with A-yokes neatly installed under the crown and nape webbing were all likely factory-produced, as witnessed by the blackened brass and blackened brass rivets that appear untouched on most of the originals, including exterior paint. No steel rivets were used for these, as had been previously occasionally used for the Westy liners with cast buckles. I would estimate given all of the historical parameters and empirical evidence available that these liners were produced by Westinghouse in early to mid 1945. The sudden switch to wire buckles I feel can be easily explained by two factors, one - large cast buckle were not sufficiently flexible and were prone to breakage, two - cost of production.

 

I had also read another source quoting a late rush to produce airborne liners for the impending invasion of the Japanese mainland in order to outfit all of the reassigned airborne troops coming out of Europe immediately. Taking all of this information together, my sense is that these were indeed produced towards the end of WWII, possibly even after the German surrender, but never used in combat during WWII. I have owned several unissued ones taken directly from surplus at Ft Bragg NC.

 

Regards to all.

 

Can you provide these sources?

[MoJ_1stID]

I think Westinghouse's liner production timeline and no AB liner production from '45-50 time-frame is well known. I tried looking through my old hard drives yesterday for the other sources. When I find i will definitely post. I think one of the references on the liners was sent to me by P. Oosterman a few years ago. From what i have read I am completely confident these are indeed produced in 1945. I have owned a considerable number of these liners, along with purpose-made unissued M1-C shells.

[Ronny67]

I agree with you on these being 1945 made. However what I really want to know is when exactly in 1945.

 

Thanks for looking.

[MoJ_1stID]

That may be hard to pin down other than finding the actual production documents from Westinghouse. Stay tuned. I know there is a comprehensive book out there with Westinghouse outlining wartime production and contract dates. I remember seeing it. Dated 1948.

Here's where the info might be located, so we can all settle this issue. The University of Pittsburgh has all of Westinghouse's war era production reports.

In cabinet (box) numbered 194, folder 16 is where the liner production report(s) can be found.

http://digital.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/f/findaid/findaid-idx?c=hswpead;cc=hswpead;type=boolean;rgn=Entire%20Finding%20Aid;q1=westinghouse;op2=and;q2=1945;op3=and;q3=wwii;view=reslist;subview=standard;sort=occur;start=1;size=25;didno=US-QQS-mss424;focusrgn=C01;byte=22278306

I will try to contact them in the morning tomorrow or day after, depending on work.

[MoJ_1stID]

I also have noticed that this controversy continues, probably due to an unfortunate statement in the 'Helmets of the ETO' book on page 21 (bottom right) where the authors refer to these liners' production as 'post-WWII' which is technically incorrect since Westinghouse ceased all WWII related production upon the surrender of Japan (with the exception of nuclear weapons-related and electronics/radar equipment production). These liners were therefore more than likely manufactured in 1945 between or around the time of the German surrender, or VE day and August of 1945. That really starts narrowing down the time-frame for production to a period of about 3 months in mid 45.

I am convinced these were more than likely requisitioned by the Army in late Spring early summer 1945, after they realized Europe was a wrap and all efforts were being redirected to the Pacific theater. There is no such thing as factory-produced airborne liners between late1945 through1953. Everything used during Korea, as we all know, was WWII surplus or rigger made.