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Schrade Walden knife - GI issue?


Bob Hudson

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I got this yesterday mostly because I cannot resist any knife with bakelite and leather grips :)

 

But were these even military issue? I suspect it was not, but thought someone might have a definitive word. I found some similar ones online with shiny blades that were civilian for sure. This is shorter than the KA-BAR type fighting knives.

 

Also, this looks like it was never sharpened, which, if so, is a first for any knife I've ever had...

 

schrade0916.jpg

 

schrade0916marks.jpg

 

schrade0916tips.jpg

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Schrade made a pilot survival knife that looked like this between 1953 and 1957. Check "Military Knives a Reference Book" page 180. Dave

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FS,

 

It is a "Pilot Survival Knife" and 100% U.S. military issue from 1953-1957. Designated "MIL-k-8662(AER)," it was replaced by the Jet Pilot Knife. It was also made by Camillus and Imperial. Schrade made two versions: this one and one with a bright blade. You will also see some, made by Imperial, with the top guard bent forward at an angle.

 

Hope this helps.

GB

 

 

 

 

 

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FS,

 

It is a "Pilot Survival Knife" and 100% U.S. military issue from 1953-1957. Designated "MIL-k-8662(AER)," it was replaced by the Jet Pilot Knife. It was also made by Camillus and Imperial. Schrade made two versions: this one and one with a bright blade. You will also see some, made by Imperial, with the top guard bent forward at an angle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Does anyone have a scan of the book info on these? This one's pommel doesn't look like any other pilot survival knives I can find. And it does not look like what is clearly a civilian version which has the shiny blade and the words "Hunter's Pride."

 

swprideknife.jpg

 

swpride.jpg

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FS,

 

It is a "Pilot Survival Knife" and 100% U.S. military issue from 1953-1957. Designated "MIL-k-8662(AER)," it was replaced by the Jet Pilot Knife. It was also made by Camillus and Imperial. Schrade made two versions: this one and one with a bright blade. You will also see some, made by Imperial, with the top guard bent forward at an angle.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Gunbarrel's right. Many a collector, including M H Cole in his wonderful reference books, once called these a version of the WW2 Navy Mk 1 knife. But it was Frank Trzaska who finally cleared that up and properly identified them as 1950's pilot's knives.

 

I own just like it made by Camillus.

 

Greg

**PLEASE NOTE: THIS COMMUNITY MEMBER, SADLY, HAS PASSED AWAY**

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/106069-rip-greg-robinson/

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Does anyone have a scan of the book info on these? This one's pommel doesn't look like any other pilot survival knives I can find. And it does not look like what is clearly a civilian version which has the shiny blade and the words "Hunter's Pride."

 

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post-214-1221623954.jpg

It's a Schrade Walden 144-L

COMMERCIAL combat utility knife

2ym6clw.jpg

Looks like you have the correct sheath

Ebay prices=15-35 bucks

I see more H-15's than I do 144L's

And I bet you thought they used plastic to conserve metal during WWII w00t.gif

(I did!!!)

 

From my friend Codger (He gave me permission to use ANY pics and info===>For the love of spreading the Schrade Legend)

There were several varients of the basic H-15 pattern, and also the Imperial versions. Some of the parts for the Schrade Waldens were actually produced by and purchased from Imperial.

 

All of the variants were adapted from the MIL-K-8662 (AER) Pilot Survival Knife (16 October 1953 until 1957). Schrade won a bid in 1956 on 23,787 of this pattern knives for the Navy. The cost with sheath was ... $1.196 each. This last info from Frank Trzaska.

 

Both Imperial and SW variants can be found with pommels and guards of aluminum, stainless, or carbon steel. And the pommel attachment means varies as well. The civilian knives would never meet Mil-Spec in this regard.

 

The #138 "Bowie Hunter" had a 9 3/4" overall length, a saber ground carbon steel 5 1/8" clip point blade, leather washer handle with spacers, curved aluminum bowie style guard, and aluminum flat pommel. This pattern was a varient of the H-15. It was cataloged in1957, two years before the introduction of the H-15. It listed for $3.95 in 1962. 1973 ½ was the last year for this pattern, and it listed for $8.00. Your knife might well be stainless. Many of these were sold to Sears with an etch on the blade and the red spacers.

 

 

LINKS===>

Collectors of Schrades R Us

Bottom right box of page 1

 

Schrade Catalogs

If you like the page, send IRV an email telling him so

He provides a valuable resource page for Schrade/Imperial collectors

Tell him T Rock sent ya!!! thumbsup.gif

 

From my personal library===>

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LAW 38
Think As You Like But Behave Like Others

If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior. It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch. Share your originality only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness.
Robert Greene (The 48 Laws of Power)

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Forum Support:

 

Gotta go with Greg and Gunbarrel on this one. Your Schrade is indeed the military version of the Schrade H-15 pattern civilian knife. The parkerized finish is what does it. You have the Pilot Survival Knife.

 

The catalog pages posted by Trentrock (thanks for doing so) show the variations of the civilian version of this blade. As is well known many knife companies made civilian versions of the military blades they sold to the Government. (Example: the plated versions of the Jet Pilot Knife made by Camillus and sold as the "Astronaut Knife".)

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

 

 

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Thanks all - it is very much a military version of the 144L (or I suspect the 144L was a civilian variant of this) and with your help I was even able to track down the specs for this exact model including the "extra rivet" on the sheath. It is the 21 July 1954 change to the MIL-K-8662 (AER) specs of 16 OCTOBER 1953 and that is online at http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/Images_6/J...lution0003a.jpg - and this is a Navy Bureau of Aeronautics spec. In Nov. 1957 they adopted the MIL-K-8662A spec which called for the screw-on pommel and the sheath with the sharpening stone.

 

Here's mine in the sheath (the snap of course broke off) - that sheathed knife in the photo above is a 144L that was on ebay. I have not been able to find any other photos of this military version online. Anyone know that they are worth (it was mentioned above the 144L goes for maybe $15-35)?

 

schrade0916case.jpg

 

and here's an excerpt from the specs:

 

sheath.jpg

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Thanks all - it is very much a military version of the 144L (or I suspect the 144L was a civilian variant of this) and with your help I was even able to track down the specs for this exact model including the "extra rivet" on the sheath. It is the 21 July 1954 change to the MIL-K-8662 (AER) specs of 16 OCTOBER 1953 and that is online at http://www.usmilitaryknives.com/Images_6/J...lution0003a.jpg - and this is a Navy Bureau of Aeronautics spec. In Nov. 1957 they adopted the MIL-K-8662A spec which called for the screw-on pommel and the sheath with the sharpening stone.

 

Here's mine in the sheath (the snap of course broke off) - that sheathed knife in the photo above is a 144L that was on ebay. I have not been able to find any other photos of this military version online. Anyone know that they are worth (it was mentioned above the 144L goes for maybe $15-35)?

 

post-214-1221661061.jpg

 

and here's an excerpt from the specs:

 

post-214-1221661156.jpg

 

OHHHHH

2 different knives

I was wondering

I thought they were the same (the Hunters Pride and yours)

My bad

 

It amazing how a sheath can help you ID a knife

LAW 38
Think As You Like But Behave Like Others

If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior. It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch. Share your originality only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness.
Robert Greene (The 48 Laws of Power)

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FS:

 

Yes, the link you posted to is Frank Trzaska's site. As Greg mentioned Frank is the guy who finally cracked the code on these blades.

 

On values I would say it is probably going to be in the $50 to $75 range. These knives do not attract much attention. They were used for a relatively short period of time and are not associated with a particular war, which is what usually drives collector interest. Second, very few people even know what they are and, seeing the resemblance to the civilian versions, confuse the two. (When they do get bought it is often by someone who has read Cole's book and thinks it is a Mark I Navy knife.) Third, Schrade as a maker does not have the storied military history of companies like Union Cutlery (Ka-Bar) and Camillus which tends to attract more interest, and thus more value. The Imperial and Camillus version of the Pilot Survival Knife always seem to bring higher prices than the Schrade, in my experience.

 

Hope that helps you.

 

Regards,

Charlie Flick

 

 

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There is a link above to some old S-W catalogs. Based on that and the specs posted at Frank's site I would say this S-W pilot's knife was not a variant of the H-15 or 144L, but rather this was produced first from the Navy's specs and then the 144-L was made as a civilian copy. I can't imagine too many of these were produced for the Navy in their short mid-50's lifespan. I have search all over the web and the only photos I find of pilot survival knives are the ones with the sharpening stone and screw-on pommel. If anyone wants to use the photos on this thread in any of the knife forums, you are welcome to do so.

 

The sheath turns out to be a good way to do ID whether you have a military version or not (in addition to which the military version only has the makers name and location on the blade but no other marks).

 

Here are some variations of the sheath with the Navy issue and the Navy specs drawing on top; followed by one that came with an H-15 shown online and which has the same shape as the milspecs but without the rivets; then one from the SW Bowie Hunter which has the rivets, but a slightly different shape plus it has "Bowie Hunter" stamped on it; and then the distinctly different shape of the 144-L sheath as shown in a 1958 SW catalog:

 

swsheaths.jpg

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There is a link above to some old S-W catalogs. Based on that and the specs posted at Frank's site I would say this S-W pilot's knife was not a variant of the H-15 or 144L, but rather this was produced first from the Navy's specs and then the 144-L was made as a civilian copy. I can't imagine too many of these were produced for the Navy in their short mid-50's lifespan. I have search all over the web and the only photos I find of pilot survival knives are the ones with the sharpening stone and screw-on pommel. If anyone wants to use the photos on this thread in any of the knife forums, you are welcome to do so.

 

The sheath turns out to be a good way to do ID whether you have a military version or not (in addition to which the military version only has the makers name and location on the blade but no other marks).

 

Here are some variations of the sheath with the Navy issue and the Navy specs drawing on top; followed by one that came with an H-15 shown online and which has the same shape as the milspecs but without the rivets; then one from the SW Bowie Hunter which has the rivets, but a slightly different shape plus it has "Bowie Hunter" stamped on it; and then the distinctly different shape of the 144-L sheath as shown in a 1958 SW catalog:

 

post-214-1221668970.jpg

 

That is cool how you did that with the pics!!

When I 1st started collecting fixed blades I never paid much attention to the sheath DESIGN styles

Now I realize sheaths are a crucial way of identifying knife model #'s

The fun part about getting new "unknown" knives is doing the research anyways...Right Forum Support?? thumbsup.gif

 

 

I'm gonna try and get a Sears Ted Williams H-15 soon think.gif

LAW 38
Think As You Like But Behave Like Others

If you make a show of going against the times, flaunting your unconventional ideas and unorthodox ways, people will think that you only want attention and that you look down upon them. They will find a way to punish you for making them feel inferior. It is far safer to blend in and nurture the common touch. Share your originality only with tolerant friends and those who are sure to appreciate your uniqueness.
Robert Greene (The 48 Laws of Power)

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  • 8 months later...
green_metalflake

Dredging up the past here but I am somewhat confused, were the 144-L, 138-L, H-15, & Imperial Utility Hunter all issue knives?

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  • 6 years later...

While looking for some modified bayonets I found this knife that was given to me by a Navy vet. I thought it was a hunting knife until I googled it and found this post. I am a little confused by the thread, maybe I have not had enough coffee but it appears the scabbard is the military type but a schrade walden NY USA H-15 knife appears to be a civilian knife. Just checking before I put this back in the civilian knife bin. Could it be a pilots variant?

 

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  • 2 years later...

I found a old Schrade Walden H-15 his week and searched the forum for this old thread to refresh my memory about these knives and their military use. A variant of the H-15 was made as a Navy contract pilot's knife in the 1950's. The photo above shows us one of these:

h151.jpeg

Looking on ebay this morning I found that someone paid over $200 for a civilian model sold as "1960s~SCHRADE WALDEN~H15~VIETNAM ERA FIGHTING/HUNTING KNIFE w/MARINE CORP SHEATH"

 

h15a.jpeg

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Looking on ebay this morning I found that someone paid over $200 for a civilian model sold as "1960s~SCHRADE WALDEN~H15~VIETNAM ERA FIGHTING/HUNTING KNIFE w/MARINE CORP SHEATH"

 

attachicon.gifh15a.jpeg

 

:blink::wacko:

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

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So here's the issue knife side-by-side with the imposter:

 

Untitled-2.jpg

 

And then there's this one that sold on ebay as a Vietnam combat knife, although the seller did say it was "private purchase" and it sold for about $70, which is what the imposter is also probably worth:

 

h15x.jpeg

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Typically see the commercial versions here in the less than $45 range.Many times $25 and under.

 

Even the issue items can be found reasonable as they are taken for a hunting/fishing knife here.Im guessing many were.

In Memoriam:
Lieutenant J.Kostelec 1-3 First Special Service Force MIA/PD 4 March 1944 Italy
I HAVE SEEN THE ENEMY AND IT IS DAYLIGHT
Forget about the tips..We'll get hell to pay (AC/DC)
"If you cant get out and run with the big dogs then sit on the porch and bark at the cars going by.."

Have you Hugged a Clown Today?

You Cant Get A Sun Tan On The Moon..





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Even the issue items can be found reasonable as they are taken for a hunting/fishing knife here.Im guessing many were.

 

Here's the one that prompted me to revisit this thread. I got a batch of knives recently from a former local veterans post commander who gathered up a variety of knives from Marines here in the area around Camp Pendleton (yes there was a WWII Ka Bar in the batch). What kind of story do I need to make it a $200 knife? :) I did see a genuine issue version sell for about $150 recently. I think the one I had when this thread started sold for maybe $50. Civilian or military they are a nice smaller sized hunting knife and the lack of a model number on the military version does indeed make it easy to overlook these.

 

1.jpg

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