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M-1967 Modernized Load-Carrying Equipment, 1968-1975


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Post #20 (Part Three):

 

Cover, Water Canteen
FSN 8465-860-0256
DSA 100-68-C-1000 - no manufacturer listed not nylon LLCE, probably a misread (faded) of contract below
DSA 100-68-C-1680 - no manufacturer listed
DSA 100-68-C-2766 - no manufacturer listed
DSA 100-69-C-0259 - no manufacturer listed
DSA 100-69-C-1232 - Lake State Manufacturing Corporation not nylon LLCE, M-1956 LCE canteen cover
DSA 100-69-C-2050 - Lake State Manufacturing Corporation not nylon LLCE, M-1956 LCE canteen cover

DSA 100-70-C-1984 - La Crosse Garment Manufacturing Company not nylon LLCE, M-1956 LCE canteen cover

DSA 100-71-C-1156 - E.C.T. Corporation not nylon LLCE, M-1956 LCE canteen cover

DSA 100-71-C-1683 - E.C.T. Corporation
DSA 100-72-C-0752 - CBS Enterprises Incorporated
DSA 100-72-C-1281 - CBS Enterprises Incorporated
DSA 100-73-C-0310 - Eastern Canvas Products Incorporated
DSA 100-73-C-0416 - Eastern Canvas Products Incorporated
DSA 100-74-C-0323 - Eastern Canvas Products Incorporated

 

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The FY1968 and FY1969 contract nylon LLCE water canteen covers (with plastic snap fasteners) were probably the only ones that reached troops in Vietnam. 16,000 covers were known to have been shipped to RVN on 20 August 1968 (Defense Supply Agency, ACSFOR DS Status Report, dated 31 December 1968). For more information on the individual contracts, as well as the development of the nylon LLCE water canteen cover, view this thread:

 

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/267297-the-one-quart-nylon-water-canteen-cover-1966-1976/

 

Field Pack
FSN 8465-935-6825
The field pack (also known as a "butt pack") appears to only have a 1968 contract issued, don't know what the contract number is.

 

Again, the nylon combat field pack was not procured by the Army.

 

Suspenders, Individual Equipment Belt
FSN 8465-935-6830
DSA 100-68-C-2823 - no manufacturer listed

 

post-3045-0-36917000-1466735496.jpg

 

Only one contract was let, for the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders, DSA100-68-C-2823 to JM BUCHEIMER CO of Cameron, West Virginia in June 1968 (with an estimated completion date of December 1968).

 

Case, Small Arms Ammunition
FSN 8465-926-6610
DSA 100-69-C-2799 - Rebmar Incorporated
30-round small arms ammunition case.

 

As stated before, in this thread, the nylon 30-round small arms ammunition cases were not part of the nylon LLCE system, being developed separately. However, the contract listed above was the only contract let for the case.

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That was it...(most) all of the original images I had posted in this thread (depicting the nylon LLCE system in use in Southeast Asia) back in 2008. After the last "picture post" (Post #20), I went off on a tangent about the LINCLOE and ALICE development that had nothing to do with the topic of the original thread.
So, now to try and get back on track to the original intent of the thread:
The trial/test nylon M-1956 LLCE, which was sent to ACTIV on 13 April 1967, consisted of 500 sets. ACTIV distributed the sets (keeping an unknown quantity for themselves) to the 101st Airborne Division, 4th Infantry Division, 199th Infantry Brigade, 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment, the Department Of The Navy (SEAL Detachments Alfa and Golf), and the Australian Military Forces in Vietnam (2 RAR and 7 RAR) to evaluate. It is unknown how many sets each unit received. I read somewhere that the Navy received 50 sets, but the source of this number could not be verified. All the evaluating units submitted a written (typed) report on their evaluation of the nylon M-1956 LLCE. The Army units reports were each two pages, the Australian report was four pages, and the Navy report was SIX pages. The Navy, out of all the evaluating units, really took the time to evaluate and critique each item that made up the system. The Navy appeared the most anxious to receive the end result of the evaluation. This appears partly due to the fact the SEALs were operating in water more often than any of the other units and could benefit from the quick-drying nylon equipments.
As I mentioned before, there is no evidence that the test/trial components were returned to ACTIV at the completion of the evaluation. It becomes more evident that the Navy retained the test/trial components when they show up in images from late 1967 and early 1968.

 

Below, dated November 1967 (photographed by JO1 J.D. Randall) "Republic of Vietnam. Members of US Navy SEAL Team One prepare for an operation as Navy landing craft carries them to their staging area along the Bassac River." This image is often used to illustrate the usage of the Type I COAT, AMMUNITION CARRYING, BUOYANT (MIL-C-29105) by the SEAL in the foreground while the SEAL at the very back of the landing craft (wearing a beret) is wearing the 1966 version of the M-79 grenadiers vest. The SEAL (wearing the boonie hat lighting a cigarette) at the far left is often identified as having a "M-1967 nylon ammo pouch," when the small arms ammunition case is actually a test/trial nylon M-1956 LLCE small arms ammunition case.

 

post-3045-0-75585800-1466738246.jpg

 

Below: the above image has been cropped from the original:

 

post-3045-0-95842200-1466738257.jpg

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These next two images come from a series of photographs taken for LIFE magazine. Unfortunately, Google does not appear to be hosting them anymore. The images have been passed around on a lot of forums but I have never seen an exact date other than 1967. Hopefully someone has more information on the images as well as having saved the whole series as I only have two (of the original ones) saved.

 

These are of SEAL Team 2 and in the first image the SEAL, at the far bottom right (identified as White) wearing the "floppy hat," is wearing both the 1966 version of the M-79 grenadiers vest along with the test/trial nylon M-1956 LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders (which when seen in other images in this series - one can see that they do not have the web equipment strap on the front). The SEAL standing next to him (wearing the ERDL beret) also has a pair of the nylon test/trial suspenders while the SEAL at the far bottom left also has a 1966 grenadiers vest.

 

post-3045-0-57822100-1466739790.jpg

 

A front view of SEAL White, illustrating both the 1966 grenadiers vest and the nylon test/trial suspenders:

 

post-3045-0-29752900-1466739862.jpg

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Another image from the LIFE series which, unfortunately, has been altered (by resizing) BUT someone has tentatively identified some of the individual SEALs. SEAL White (seated at the left) can still be seen wearing the 1966 grenadiers vest and test/trial nylon suspenders:

 

post-3045-0-83069100-1466740342.jpg

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These three images are from Ray Mendez who served with 3rd Platoon, Bravo Company, 1st Battalion, 6th Infantry, 198th Infantry Brigade, 23rd Infantry Division (AMERICAL), USARV. His tour was during 1970 through 1971.


Below Ray Mendez "Loaded up and moving out...this location was north of Dottie where we crossed many

streams...very heavy booby trap area..." Mendez has a nylon LLCE water canteen cover attached to his rucksack.


post-3045-0-31284600-1466743990.jpg


A photograph taken by Ray Mendez. No nylon equipment in the image, but I saw where someone said that soldiers with the 4th Infantry rarely wore their SSI in the "Patches in action" thread. Here is an image of a soldier (name unknown) with, at the time, AMERICAL wearing the 4th Infantry SSI as his "Former Wartime Unit." Mendez's description "Picture of entry site to LZ Dottie...note someone wrote they only had 16 days left...Unknown name of G.I."


post-3045-0-48337900-1466744008.jpg


Again, no nylon equipments. SGT Mendez (left) with SGTs James Maestas and John Shandrew at Cam Rahn Bay prior to heading home. SGT Mendez has the 198th Infantry Brigade SSI on his right pocket.


post-3045-0-58455900-1466745478.jpg

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These next four images come from members of Alpha Company, 1st Battalion, 11th Infantry Regiment, 1st Brigade, 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized), USARV.

 

Below: photograph via Lyle J. "Monty" Montgomery whose tour was in 1970. SP4 Montgomery (with water canteen cup) wearing the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders.

 

post-3045-0-49377200-1466748428.jpg

 

The next three photographs via William M. "Mike" Grange whose tour was 1970 through 1971.

 

Below: a nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case sits on top of Mike's rucksack. A 2-quart nylon water canteen cover (with 2-quart canteen) is attached to the right (facing) side of the rucksack.

 

post-3045-0-43683100-1466748437.jpg

 

Below: "Crossing a river." Soldier in foreground (who is not identified) is wearing the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders and bears a resemblance to SP4 Montgomery (both are in the same company).

 

post-3045-0-34139800-1466748445.jpg

 

Below: Mike identifies this as SGT William J. Irvine, who has a nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case on the front of his individual equipment belt.

 

post-3045-0-59899000-1466748456.jpg

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More images from members of Alpha Company, 1st Battalion, 11th Infantry Regiment, 1st Brigade, 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized), USARV.

 

Below: photograph via David L. "The Artist" Schonhoff whose tour was from 1970 through 1971. Schonhoff captioned this image "Things we carried." At the left (on the individual equipment belt) is a nylon LLCE water canteen cover. A 2-quart nylon water canteen cover (with 2-quart canteen) is attached to the rucksack.

 

post-3045-0-12256800-1466751821.jpg

 

The next three images are via Carroll D. Webb of 3rd Platoon whose tour was from 1970 through 1971.

 

Below: (top row, left to right) Callie E. Phillips, Joe H. Sims (wearing the nylon M-79 grenade vest), and Carroll Webb with a pair of nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition cases (middle row, left to right) Ronald M. Stobbe, Leslie R. Burris, and Ronald G. Sisson (wearing another nylon M-79 grenade vest) (bottom row) Simon Piedra.

 

post-3045-0-75811700-1466752321.jpg

 

Below: Webb showing his equipment and the pair of nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition cases.

 

post-3045-0-67386800-1466752371.jpgpost-3045-0-84427500-1466752387.jpg

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The Meatcan

Wow, sgtmonroe, that is a LOT of information to digest! Thanks so much for putting the massive effort into correcting this thread and the historical record.

Hope you can somehow get those original thread images to resurface.

Terry

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Some images of a SGT with K Company (Ranger), 75th Infantry, 4th Infantry Division. Do not know his name, maybe someone else can identify him:

 

Oh dear, another 4th Infantry SSI (on ERDL):

 

post-3045-0-00251400-1466753595.jpg

 

Same SGT (right) wearing tigers with nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders, 20-round small arms ammunition cases, and TWO field first aid dressing cases! The CAR-15 has the added foregrip modification.

 

post-3045-0-82258900-1466753630.jpg

 

Different photograph of same SGT in ERDL with nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders attached to a M-1956 individual equipment belt with Davis buckle, four (!) 20-round small arms ammunition cases attached to a separate individual equipment belt, and TWO NYLON field first aid dressing cases! Behind his right hand appears to be a 5-quart collapsible water canteen.

 

post-3045-0-72779500-1466753642.jpg

 

Black and white photograph of the same SGT with the TWO nylon LLCE field first aid dressing cases.

 

post-3045-0-76128400-1466753656.jpg

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Two more images from members of Alpha Company, 1st Battalion, 11th Infantry Regiment, 1st Brigade, 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized), USARV.

 

Below: photograph via Rob Coakley whose tour was in 1971. "My squad leader in base camp." Name unknown, wearing the nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case:

 

post-3045-0-81469400-1466852189.jpg

 

Below: photograph via Stephen D. "Steve" Sullens. Sullens captioned this photograph "hiking gear." The nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case (attached to an individual equipment belt) is on top of his rucksack:

 

post-3045-0-37792500-1466852195.jpg

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This next image was all over plastic gun forums as the individual in the center is wearing a "vintage" French TAP "lizard" camouflage smock. What I usually see is the misinformed using this image as "justification" that US troops wore this odd combination. What I have issue with is people love to repost images, but "conveniently" forget to credit the image as well as post the original description. The image originates from the Project Delta website and was photographed by Chester B. Howard (whose tour was 1969 through 1970). There was no date listed by the photographer but his description is: "Although SSG Roy Sprouse is not within view, this is the beginning of a six day mission, led by SFC Burhl Cunningham, that discovered an NVA truck convoy of approximately 116 trucks. L to R: SFC Ralph L. Hill, SSG Dennis C. McVey, Ringo (VN interpreter), SFC Burhl Cunningham."

 

The soldiers are from B-52 Project Delta (5th Special Forces) and the individual wearing the French camouflage smock is their Vietnamese (national) interpreter Ringo - not a US soldier. SFC Cunningham has (at least) one nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case attached to his individual equipment belt:

 

post-3045-0-96108900-1466856098.jpg

 

An un-credited and undated photograph attributed to a Project Delta member. This image does not appear to have originated from the Project Delta website. Maybe someone has some further information on the image. Tucked behind a M-1956 LCE small arms ammunition case (above the shoulder holster) is a single nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case.

 

post-3045-0-14247700-1466856109.jpg

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The next two photographs (taken in 1969 by Lieutenant Herbert M. Ruth of SEAL Team 2, 9th Platoon, Detachment Alpha) are from warboats.org.

 

The photographs are of SEAL Team 2, 9th Platoon, Detachment Alpha members on board a Mark IV LCPL with LDNN (Lien Doc Nguoi Nhia - Vietnamese Navy Seals). The SEAL (in the first image - on the right between the two LDNN) is Medal Of Honor recipient GMG1 (at the time) Michael Thornton. Thornton is wearing the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders. In the second image, Thornton's back can be seen as well as the snap-hook fasteners on the rear shoulders of the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders.
post-3045-0-99607600-1466858052.jpg
post-3045-0-25537000-1466858059.jpg

 

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Rangers Byrd (left) and Wolfiel; L Company (Ranger), 101st Airborne Division, unknown location in South Vietnam; August 1970. Wolfiel has a pair of M-1967 MLCE small arms ammunition cases.

 

Post #20 (Part One): I have, yet again, lost the image that was originally in this post.

 

Found this one (originally in Post #20):

 

post-3045-0-33345400-1466864327.jpg

 

Below: date unknown, Ranger Pat Brennan of Papa Company (Ranger), 75th Infantry, 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized), USARV. Brennan has a nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case (with two "willie pete" grenades attached) attached to his individual equipment belt.

 

post-3045-0-87023000-1466864415.jpg

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Theres some good pictures of regular army infantry using some M-1967 gear in Vietnam (1970-1971) at http://www.vlbanting.com/vietnam.htm.

 

Sadly the vet that took those died a couple months ago.

 

DiGilio had posted the above link to Vaughn Banting's website. Banting passed away in 2008 and his website has since gone defunct. Luckily, Banting sent his images to be posted on his old unit's website. Banting was a PFC and RTO with Charlie Company, 2nd Battalion, 12th Infantry attached to the 25th Infantry Division and his tour was November 1970 through December 1971 (he was wounded in April 1971 and transferred to the rear before the 12th Infantry was rotated back to the states). Banting was wounded in the last firefight the 2/12 was involved in (before the unit was rotated back to the states).

 

Below: PFC Banting wearing the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders:

 

post-3045-0-59739700-1466886639.jpg

 

Below: PFC Banting wearing the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders and oddly a 199th Infantry Brigade SSI. Banting was with the 2nd Battalion and only the 4th and 5th Battalion's were attached to the 199th:

 

post-3045-0-13671700-1466886650.jpg

 

Below: Steve Foltz walking point and wearing the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders:

 

post-3045-0-91431600-1466886657.jpg

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(left to right) PFC Banting (left with nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders), Captossi (wearing the nylon M-79 grenadiers vest), Rodel, Steve Foltz, and Sergeant "Mack":

 

post-3045-0-67747600-1466888014.jpg

 

Two images from a series taken in December 1970, of members of Charlie Company, 2nd Battalion, 12th Infantry, during a mission east of Xuan Loc. Both of these unidentified soldiers are wearing a nylon LLCE water canteen cover on their individual equipment belts:

 

post-3045-0-18835300-1466888053.jpg

 

post-3045-0-05034500-1466888058.jpg

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The next two photographs (taken in 1969 by Lieutenant Herbert M. Ruth of SEAL Team 2, 9th Platoon, Detachment Alpha) are from warboats.org.

 

The photographs are of SEAL Team 2, 9th Platoon, Detachment Alpha members on board a Mark IV LCPL with LDNN (Lien Doc Nguoi Nhia - Vietnamese Navy Seals). The SEAL (in the first image - on the right between the two LDNN) is Medal Of Honor recipient GMG1 (at the time) Michael Thornton. Thornton is wearing the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders. In the second image, Thornton's back can be seen as well as the snap-hook fasteners on the rear shoulders of the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders.

 

Some info is wrong in this post. These are not LDNN but PRU. And the SEAL mentioned is NOT MOH Mike Thornton. It is Frank Thornton of SEAL Team 2 who was the PRU advisor. Frank was a very highly decorated SEAL in his own right.

 

Also the LDNN translation is wrong. It's Lien Doi Nguoi Nhai. Around 1970 the "D" was changed to Doan. Doi is team, doan is group.

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Spike, thank you so much for the correction!

 

Below: Australians! ACTIV sent the Australians the nylon M-1956 LLCE for evaluation and they really liked it. Their evaluation report was the next longest (the Navy's was the longest) and they apparently, like the SEALs, really took their time evaluating the equipments (they submitted their report after ACTIV's deadline for submission)! The image below was simply re-posted on a forum with no information. I have seen the soldier (second from left, standing) with the custom grenade carrier (made from the pockets of the nylon M-79 grenadiers vest) before but do not have any information on him. The soldier to his left (standing) is wearing either the test/trial nylon M-1956 LLCE or nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders (can not tell due to the placement of his collar) while the soldier at the far right (standing) is wearing the nylon M-79 grenadiers vest (albeit missing the top pockets - which may have been used to make the custom bandoleer).

 

Hopefully someone on the forum has some more information about the photograph as I know the soldier with the custom bandoleer has been identified before, as there are a number of photographs out there of him wearing the custom grenade bandoleer!

 

post-3045-0-73028200-1467048568.jpg

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Below: members of Papa Company, 75th Infantry, 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized), USRVN. Unfortunately none of these images were dated and only one had the names of the Rangers. Hopefully someone else can provide more information.

 

Rangers (left to right) Brown, Wese, and Lutz. Ranger Lutz has a nylon LLCE small arms ammunition case attached to his M-1956 LCE individual equipment belt suspenders:

 

post-3045-0-89124100-1467050460.jpg

 

Rangers with a soldier from the 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized). The Ranger at the left has at least one nylon LLCE small arms ammunition case attached to his individual equipment belt. The soldier at the right also has at least one nylon LLCE small arms ammunition case and the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders:

 

post-3045-0-66894700-1467050471.jpg

 

Rangers on board a helicopter. The Ranger at the left has at least one nylon LLCE small arms ammunition case attached to his individual equipment belt and at least one (possibly two) nylon LLCE field first aid dressing case attached to his M-1956 LCE individual equipment belt suspenders. The Ranger at the right, with suppressed M16A1, has at least one nylon LLCE small arms ammunition case attached to his individual equipment belt:

 

post-3045-0-41511500-1467050482.jpg

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Some info is wrong in this post. These are not LDNN but PRU. And the SEAL mentioned is NOT MOH Mike Thornton. It is Frank Thornton of SEAL Team 2 who was the PRU advisor. Frank was a very highly decorated SEAL in his own right.

 

As goes the internet, veterans and veteran's families take the time to scan and post wartime photographs, only to have them unceremoniously spread all over internet forums with no recognition, appreciation, captioning, etc. For a photograph to mean something, the only thing proper is to identify the source, forward what information goes with the photograph, and thank the people kind enough to provide it.

 

The two images I had posted of GMG1 Francis "Frank" Thornton had been originally found on a foreign plastic gun forum with no information other than "Navy SEALs in Vietnam." Luckily the poster had hotlinked the images from the warboats website, so I was able to determine that they came from Herb Ruth.

 

I came across the image below (on the same forum) and thought the SEAL in the image looked a lot like Frank Thornton and wondered if it was also from Herb Ruth (as it was also not captioned). I did a little digging and found that Herb Ruth's son had posted some of his father's photographs to a Facebook memorial page (he has posted some great ones and they are greatly appreciated!). This image did come from Herb Ruth and shows Frank Thornton with 9th Platoon, SEAL Team 2 in 1969 (month unknown). Thornton has a single nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case attached to his individual equipment belt:

 

post-3045-0-51568200-1467107544.jpg

 

Thanks again to Spike for correcting me, as it lead me to look into Frank Thornton's history and find more great images of him with SEAL Team 2.

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Another Papa Company, 75th Infantry (Ranger), 5th Infantry Division (Mechanized) Ranger. These images are from Ranger Frank Couvillion. They are not dated but his tour appears to be from 1969 through 1970. Couvillion posted these (along with another 20 or so from his service in Vietnam) to his blog: US Army Airborne Ranger. It is well worth checking out as he also has some information on Papa Company and its operations, as well as his military service (before and after Vietnam) as he retired after more than 20 years with the Army.

 

I posted them as they appear on his blog (as he scanned several images together in groups) and they were already captioned by Ranger Couvillion. In the two images (top right and bottom left) Ranger Couvillion has two nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition cases attached to his individual equipment belt. He also appears to be wearing the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders - but the images are not clear enough to say they are definitively the nylon suspenders:

 

post-3045-0-22769900-1467109221.jpg

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The picture of the ASAS is from 1971. The guy kneeling bottom right is Navy SEAL John Deacon from Whiskey plt out of Solid Anchor. Several SEALs operated with ASAS and visa-versa.

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This image has also been identified as being ASAS (but no date or any other identifying information). I do not know enough about it to say one way or the other. I have seen images of LRRP/SOG with a suppressed Sten, but NOT the same Sten (the ones that US soldiers were photographed with had the canvas wrap-around "hand guard" and the barrel was not camouflaged). The soldier holding the Sten is wearing the nylon LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders. The soldier at the right (bending over) has a nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case attached to his individual equipment belt.

 

post-3045-0-27812900-1467166176.jpg

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  • 3 years later...
Doctorofwar

 

POST #2: Its both sad and great at the same time. In 2008 this was the only image that clearly showed one of the Marines at the Embassy during Operation Frequent Wind. Now, eight years later, there are dozens. The key is sorting out the small arms ammunition cases as some are the nylon 30-round while others are the LINCLOE cases. Due to the vast amount of images (that are currently available) from Frequent Wind, Eagle Pull, and Mayaguez I am currently working on a separate thread (in the vein of the water canteen cover and first aid dressing case) to sort through the images and the development of the Marine LINCLOE case.

 

This Associated Press image, which there are other angles, is the clearest version showing the Marine with the nylon LLCE intrenching tool carrier. In the highest resolution of the image the grenade straps can be made out on the nylon 30-round small arms ammunition case - thus eliminating it as being LINCLOE (as some others have stated) as the LINCLOE has the grenade pockets.

 

attachicon.gif ap-embassy-wall.jpg

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Another pics of Marines at the embassy in 1975 that clearly shows a mix of nylon and older gear. High resolution enough to show the nylon 30rd case grenade straps and prove it isnt a LINCLOE. Also note the LLCE entrenching tool carrier on the Marine at right.

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  • 5 months later...

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