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M-1967 Modernized Load-Carrying Equipment, 1968-1975


sgtmonroe
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This is the USMC version of the LINCLOE or M1972 SAA. :rolleyes:

I don't understand why no bids.

CFC

for most of the people all that nylon staff means nothing...they just dont look as cool & military as an old M23 Garand belt & they are partly right-partly wrong on this...

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craig_pickrall

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/ind...hotgun&st=0

 

Check this thread on Shotgun Shell Pouches. Post #29 shows a nylon pouch. There are earlier posts showing Vietnam dated pouches in cotton web too.

 

I would like to see a better pic of the data on that ebay pouch, the one shown is unreadable to me.

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  • 3 years later...

A question for sgtmonroe

I know this is an old thread but I thought it would be the best place to ask this question.

i picked this belt up today and it has some legible markings unlike my other belts like this. It has three rows of eyelets and old adjusment and Davis fastner

It looks too me like it was a 1974 contract

Belt Individual Equipment

84?? 835 ??15

dsa 100 74 c ????

Eastern Canvas Products.

belt.jpg

belta.jpg

beltb.jpg

beltc.jpg

Would they still be making this belt that late after adopting the new style belt for the alice system.

Thanks Allen

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I am not close to my reference material right now, but what I can tell you about the belt off the top of my head is:

 

The contract, even though it looks like "74" on your belt, is actually 1972. The belt is a "true" M-1967 individual equipment belt. The only contract let for them was to Eastern Canvas in FY1972. The "true" M-1967 individual equipment belts ALL have Davis buckles per the military specifications. The FSN for the belt is 8465-935-6815 (medium).

 

I have quite a few of these belts. Somewhere I have one with a much clearer stamping that is, of course, identicial to what is stamped on yours. I will try and dig it out and photograph it.

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  • 3 years later...
One (or more) of the forum moderators (sorry Craig, I am finally getting around to it), as well as a few members, have contacted me over the years about my idiotic use of Photobusket in the early days. So, I am trying to get around to re-posting some of the images that have disappeared from the original topics I had posted them to.


This specific topic was one I received the most requests about. I started the topic on 16 SEP 2008 (almost EIGHT years ago) and, as one can see, it (like most topics) got derailed from the original intent - to document the use, through period photographs, of the M-1967 Lightweight Load-Carrying Equipment (LLCE) during the Vietnam War. Everything was discussed from the nylon "butt pack" to the Marine LINCLOE pouches. I personally went off on a tangent about the LINCLOE and ALICE systems that had nothing to do with the M-1967 LLCE.


One "bright side" to the topic was that Carter Rila (posting as charles_franklin_carter) came out of seclusion and posted four times to the topic (the only four posts to the forum before his passing). Of course the nylon individual equipments were one of his areas of expertise. It was great to see him on a forum again - for those that were part of the original group on Gunboards, Carter (under the name Webcat) never failed to entertain with his knowledge of U.S. individual equipments (from all time periods) and edged weapons. He has been missed[1].


As I re-read the entire topic, I realized how ignorant I was eight years ago. I had no clue that in two years I would begin work on a book about this stuff with Craig. I learned a lot in the years following this original topic. As I stated, as I re-read I was thinking that the topic should just be scrapped and re-started. But, I figured it would be better to go through (as I re-post the images from the original topic) and point out my own errors.


ERRORS PART ONE:


The most glaring error is the title of the topic. At the time, in 2008, I had only heard of the nylon individual equipments referred to as Modernized Load-Carrying Equipment (MLCE). This term originated from Gordon Rottman[2]. It was only after three years of research that I discovered that he had fabricated the name. The United States Army never utilized the term. The LLCE system has, since its creation in 1967, always been designated Lightweight Load-Carrying Equipment with the first "officially published" usage coming from Technical Manual 10-276 Hot Weather Clothing And Equipment (August 1970). I should have realized this earlier (in my research) as I had not found any U.S. Army publication utilizing the term MLCE, even Shelby Stanton called it by the correct name [3].


But, unfortunately, the damage done by Rottman in 1989 will probably never be undone. Everywhere I look - in modern books (like Lyles' [4] and Brayley's [5] materials), on websites, other forums, etc. - the MLCE term has become synonymous with the M-1967 equipments. The sad thing is, as I have pointed out before, if it was a Second World War item that was being referred to by the wrong name the propagator of the error would be ridiculed and flamed into seclusion!


The "model-year" designation, M-1967, was "retroactively" adopted in June 1970. By the time the military specifications (for the individual components) were written, the Vietnam War was at it's end. Thus the individual equipment items officially assigned the M-1967 designation were produced too late to appear in Southeast Asia. Some of the components (such as the individual equipment belt and suspenders) were retroactively named M-1967, but this terminology never reached the grunt that used them. Some individual equipment items, such as the 20-round small arms ammunition cases and intrenching tool carrier, were never assigned the M-1967 designation, as they were standardized in their current (at the time) form prior to the creation of the M-1967 designation. The only individual equipment item, that was part of the M-1967 LLCE system, that was actually marked "M-1967" (by the manufacturer) was the water canteen cover (and only beginning during FY1972, which means the item would have not reached Southeast Asia before the withdrawal).


So with that in mind, what was actually utilized in Vietnam? The components seen were part of the Limited Procurement (1968 and 1969) of the Lightweight Load-Carrying Equipment system. The army, at the time, subscribed to the shortsighted theory of the nylon individual equipments being for "tropical use only" and thus would be produced for a finite amount of time. If it had not been for Eldon Metzger and the LINCLOE program, nylon individual equipment development (that resulted in the ALICE system) might have ended with Vietnam!


The M-1967 LLCE, while developed from the M-1956 Lightweight Load-Carrying Equipment trials, is not a direct father of the ALICE system - more like an uncle. The LINCLOE program utilized some components of the M-1967 LLCE, but a concerted effort was made to develop "new" nylon equipments independent of the M-1967 LLCE. This ultimately failed and most of the final LINCLOE items are improved versions of the M-1967 LLCE components (individual equipment belt, first aid case, and water canteen cover).


Another issue I had early on was "which components make up the system." I, again, had relied on the wrong information and believed (like others) there were many more additional components of the system. The 30-round nylon small arms ammunition case was NOT part of the M-1967 LLCE system as it was developed independently from the system. The tropical rucksack was NOT part of the system, even though USARV suggested that it be. Further, people like to throw the 2-quart water canteen and cover into the fray - again, NOT part of the system as it too was developed independently.


ERRORS PART TWO:


The M-1967 LLCE (initially the Limited Procurement of LLCE), was developed from the M-1956 (nylon) LLCE trials. The nylon M-1956 LLCE was trialed in Vietnam from 1966 through 1967. Most of the test/trial components were NOT returned. So this puts a spin on identification of some nylon items seen being utilized by troops in Vietnam. What was (ignorantly) originally attributed to "differences in design or manufacture" (or things to that effect) when identifying items in photographs, was not (as it should have been) attributed to the possibility the item was actually a nylon M-1956 LLCE trial component! As I re-post the original images I will point out some of the most glaring examples of the M-1956 LLCE trial components still being used by soldiers.


Another issue is that of the images that were included in the Hot Weather Clothing And Equipment technical manual (Craig posted some of them in Post #21). The images are of the trial M-1956 LLCE and NOT the Limited Procurement of LLCE! In Post #24 coolman tried to argue this point (albeit in his own way), but we were too blindsided by Rottman to listen. So, coolman, if you are still out there creeping...I am vindicating you!


Below is an image from Natick Laboratories, from 1969, illustrating the "hot weather uniform." The problem with the equipment is that it is a mix of trial M-1956 and Limited Procurement LLCE. The individual equipment belt suspenders lack the web equipment attachment straps (for the first aid/compass case, flashlight, etc. - which was a major gripe by the units that evaluated them), so they are definitely M-1956 LLCE. The small arms ammunition cases are two different sizes, the smaller (left) being the Limited Procurement of LLCE, while the larger (right) is the M-1956 LLCE trial version.


post-3045-0-27326000-1465590162.jpg


post-3045-0-20012700-1465590170.jpg


Below are the two other images that appear in the Hot Weather Clothing And Equipment technical manual (Craig did not originally post these) that illustrate the alleged LLCE. The images were photographed on 13 May 1969! Again, the equipments shown are a mix of M-1956 trial and LLCE. The individual equipment belt suspenders are, again, the M-1956 trial version with no web equipment attachment straps. The combat field pack ("butt pack") is also the M-1956 trial version (see ERRORS PART THREE), while the other components APPEAR to be early Natick Laboratories manufactured components (with the exception of the intrenching tool carrier - which appears to be the only production item illustrated).


post-3045-0-67219300-1465590177.jpg


post-3045-0-84664700-1465590183.jpg


This last image is circa 1968 (as it originally appeared in the August 1968 Army Material Command report). The image accompanied the report about the independent development of the 20-round nylon small arms ammunition case (it was developed from the cotton duck 20-round small arms ammunition case - they even share the same military specifications). It appears that if Natick Laboratories had not stepped in with this version (of the small arms ammunition case), the plan was to utilize the nylon M-1956 trial small arms ammunition case (that was the same size as the "universal" M-1956 cotton duck small arms ammunition case - illustrated above) for the LLCE system. Also pictured are the finalized LLCE individual equipment belt suspenders with web equipment straps on the shoulder straps.


post-3045-0-30401600-1465590189.jpg

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ERRORS PART THREE:
Simply put, despite all the bickering originally generated in this topic, THERE NEVER WAS A NYLON "ARMY" COMBAT FIELD PACK (aka "butt pack"). Anything ever attributed to its existence was eventually found to be the Marine version (or post-war "3-day training pack"). While researching the book, Brett and Simon at Vietnam Gear provided the following document. This was the most important discovery in terms of the LLCE: the USARV recommendation that the "butt pack" was not needed (which was later acknowledged by the Department of the Army). So, the final word on the nylon LLCE combat field pack was actually written in 1968:
post-3045-0-86183900-1465593036.jpg
So, I am sure everyone is tired of my "book length post." I will begin re-posting the original images (that were in this topic) in the order that they originally appeared. Some of the image descriptions will be expanded as, since originally posting them, I have learned more about the image or I had originally posted incorrect information concerning the image. I have acquired a lot more images that correspond to this topic and will begin posting them once I have the original ones back up.
NOTES
[1] For those not familiar with Carter Rila, below is just one of his credentials from the NOTES section of Chapter 8 (Individual Equipment) of Shelby Stanton's book[3]:
post-3045-0-80450700-1465593041.jpg
[2]U.S. Army Combat Equipments 1910-1988 (Osprey Men-At-Arms Series 205); Gordon Rottman and Ron Volstad (1989, Osprey Publishing Ltd., ISBN 0-85045-842-0)
[3]U.S. Army Uniforms Of The Vietnam War; Shelby Stanton (1989, Stackpole Books, ISBN 0-8117-1852-2) - Chapter 8, Individual Equipment, pp 143
[4]Vietnam: US Uniforms In Colour Photographs; Kevin Lyles (1992, Windrow & Greene Ltd., ISBN 1-872004-52-0) and U.S. Infantry Vietnam; Kevin Lyles (1996, Concord Publications Co., ISBN 962-361-606-6)
[5]American Web Equipment 1910 - 1967; Martin J. Brayley (2006, The Crowood Press, ISBN 1-86126-832-7) - Brayley takes it a step further and makes up his own name for the system - Modified Load-Carrying Equipment. Our book - a Volume II of sorts - was proposed to the publisher because of the glaring errors Brayley included in this book about the M-1967 LLCE. The publisher basically told me..."if you think you can do better, have at it."

 

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1969 - Photograph taken by Ronnie R. Edwards of L Company [Ranger], 101st Airborne Division, United States Army circa 1969 of equipment staging in Quang Tri, Vietnam. A M-1967 water canteen cover is visible. It is loaded with 20-round cartridge magazines. The rifles are XM177E1s.

 

POST #1 - PART ONE: In the original description of this image I should have indicated that the image came from a group of images that have a date range of 1969 through 1971. So this image could have been taken anytime during that period (Mr. Edwards did not give a specific date for this image). The two (2) field packs (that are back to back) are the RUCKSACK, TROPICAL (FSN 8465-935-6673). The nylon LLCE water canteen cover sticks out because of the black plastic snap fasteners. The two (2) XM177E1 carbines (MACHINE GUN, 5,56 MILLIMETER - FSN 1005-930-5595), aka CAR-15s, have their noise/flash suppressors taped with electrical tape. A anecdote about the term CAR-15. Soldiers in Vietnam began calling any short-barreled Colt carbine a "CAR-15" (even though it was only assigned by Colt to a 5.56mm weapons system trial in the mid 1960s). The term stuck, and well into the 1980s and 1990s any 5.56mm carbine was called a CAR-15. The term is pronounced "see-ay-are fifteen" (much like the BAR is pronounced "bee-ay-are"). I was recently in an unnamed location and overheard a younger patron speaking with the owner about "car fifteens" (pronounced like an automobile). I eventually left as I could not make the patron understand the error of his ways.

 

post-3045-0-84029100-1465610934.jpg

 

The next two images (which were not included in the original post) come from the same source as the above image. All of the images come from the L Company (Ranger) website (which is currently being moved to a new web location - so they do not have all the images up yet). I highly recommend checking their website out as it is crammed with great in-country images of LRRPs and Rangers (most have been spread throughout the web due to the depiction of CAR-15s, camouflage uniforms, etc. in use in Vietnam).

 

Below, although this image does not have any nylon LLCE in it, it does depict the RUCKSACK, LIGHTWEIGHT (FSN 8465-782-3248) and (excessive) use of the nylon two-quart COVER, WATER CANTEEN (FSN 8465-927-7485). The water canteen covers (there are at least four pictured) are used to carry both the two-quart canteen and cartridge magazines. The CAR-15 has, like in the image about, the noise/flash suppressor taped with electrical tape (to keep water and moisture out - as a muzzle cover was never produced for the weapon).

 

post-3045-0-72536900-1465610940.jpg

 

Below, another image of equipment staging (before a mission). A single (identifiable) nylon LLCE water canteen cover appears on the equipment in the right corner (the water purification tablet pocket is visible). There may be more nylon water canteen covers in the image, but it is hard to tell. Among the tropical rucksacks are two-quart nylon water canteen covers and a Gerber Mark II (on the equipment in the upper left corner). The weapons (left to right): a M16A1 with M203 LAUNCHER, GRENADE (FSN 1010-179-6447) with a 30-round MAGAZINE, CARTRIDGE (FSN 1005-921-5004), a XM177E1 with 30-round cartridge magazine, and a XM177E2 (SUBMACHINE GUN, 5.56 MILLIMETER - FSN 1005-021-2429).

 

post-3045-0-79120100-1465610946.jpg

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1969 - Captain William H. Gaylor, commander of Bravo Company, 4th Battalion, 31st Infantry Regiment, Americal Division - 28 August 1969, Hiep Duc Valley, Vietnam - armed with an XM177E1 [with collapsible stock replaced with fixed M16A1 stock] and wearing M-1967 individual equipment belt suspenders. He also has the two-quart canteen and cover.

 

 

POST #1 - PART TWO: The image of Captain Gaylor was tracked down to photographer Robert Hodierne (he has a website, Vietnam Photography, which contains hundreds of unpublished photographs from his reporting in Vietnam from 1966 - 1967 and 1969 - 1970). The image is actually from a series photographed during a firefight in the Hiep Duc Valley.

 

Besides what I had already pointed out, in the original photograph's description, Captain Gaylor has used the "hooks" on the nylon LLCE suspenders to support his loaded M3 BANDOLEER (FSN 1305-924-3088). During the trials of the nylon M-1956 LLCE a number of evaluating units complained about how the "hooks" (which were designed to support the combat field pack when worn in an "upper position") interfered with other slung individual equipment items. The Navy SEALs that evaluated the nylon M-1956 LLCE suggested that the "hooks" be swapped with the grommet tabs on the combat field pack - to create a "sleeker profile" on the suspenders. This, obviously, was not considered when the suspenders were standardized.

 

post-3045-0-69353000-1465627222.jpg

 

The above image was cropped down from Hodierne's original (below). Unfortunately, Hodierne's website does not offer larger images (without purchasing them) and all feature his watermark:

 

post-3045-0-43398700-1465627228.jpg

 

A second image of Captain Gaylor, providing a better view of his modified CAR-15 and the nylon 2-quart water canteen cover:

 

post-3045-0-05607100-1465627235.jpg

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The next four [4] images come from the text "Ranger" by Ron Field.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/1969_01.jpg

 

1969 - P Company [Ranger], 75th Infantry [Airborne], Quang-Tri Provence, Vietnam, 21 December 1969. On the left is Roy Burke and the right is David Barber. Shorty after this image was taken the helicopter was airborne and under fire. The helicopter crashed killing all aboard except for Larry Smith [pictured below]. Both men have M-1967 MLCE small arms ammunition cases.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/1969_02.jpg

 

1969 - Larry Smith aboard the same helicopter pictured above. He survived the crash. Pictured is a M-1967 MLCE small arms ammunition case.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/1970_01.jpg

 

1970 - H Company [Ranger], 75th Infanrty [Airborne], Phouc Vinh, November 1970. Al Rapp applies camouflage face paint to Glen McCrary's face. McCrary is wearing a pair of M-1967 MLCE individual equipment belt suspenders.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/1970_02.jpg

 

1970 - P Company [Ranger], 75th Infantry [Airborne], near DMZ, 1970. The center Ranger [name unknown] is wearing both M-1967 MLCE individual equipment belt suspenders and small arms ammunition cases.

 

POST #1 - PART THREE: Since posting the first two images in this group of images (that appeared in the book RANGER by Ron Field[6]) I have learned a lot about this group of Rangers. There is one website that is dedicated to these Rangers of "Killer Team 1-6" (nicknamed "Dowd's Dirty Half Dozen"), Papa Company (Ranger), 75th Infantry, 5th Infantry Division, USARV.

 

I have tried to get better resolution copies of the images (than those that were originally posted back in 2008) so I will have to post them one per post:

 

Most of the individuals (in this first image) have been identified (left to right): SP4 Roy Jeffrey Burke (with two nylon LLCE small arms ammunition cases), SP4 James Howard Dean, PFC Gary Philip Sinclair, and SGT David Leon Barber (with two nylon LLCE small arms ammunition cases).

 

post-3045-0-44377200-1466084487.jpg

 

[6]RANGER Behind Enemy Lines In Vietnam; Ron Field (2000, Publishing News Ltd, ISBN 1-903040-04-3)

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The next four [4] images come from the text "Ranger" by Ron Field.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/1969_01.jpg

 

1969 - P Company [Ranger], 75th Infantry [Airborne], Quang-Tri Provence, Vietnam, 21 December 1969. On the left is Roy Burke and the right is David Barber. Shorty after this image was taken the helicopter was airborne and under fire. The helicopter crashed killing all aboard except for Larry Smith [pictured below]. Both men have M-1967 MLCE small arms ammunition cases.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/1969_02.jpg

 

1969 - Larry Smith aboard the same helicopter pictured above. He survived the crash. Pictured is a M-1967 MLCE small arms ammunition case.

 

SGT Larry Smith (on the same helicopter) with the nylon LLCE small arms ammunition case.

 

post-3045-0-22148100-1466085658.jpg

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This image was not part of the original post, but I am including it as it shows the rest of the squad that was on the helicopter. In the first image only the heads of SGT Smith and SSG Dowd can be seen (on the opposite side of the helicopter). In the second image (of SGT Smith), part of SP4 Dean's face can be seen (wearing a beret, at far upper right), and the elbow and leg (at the far right) belongs to SSG Dowd.

 

In this image SGT Smith as at the left, SP4 Dean is looking over SSG Dowd's shoulder, and SSG Thomas Joseph Dowd is at the right. SSG Dowd was the team's leader.

 

So, basically, the photographer took the first picture of one side of the helicopter, walked around and took the next two photographs of the opposite side.

 

post-3045-0-36670100-1466089133.jpg

 

The crew of the helicopter were (all from Charlie Company, 158th Assault Helicopter Battalion, 101st Aviation Group, 101st Airborne Division, USARV):

 

W-1 Thomas Lynn Forsythe

CPT Arthur Robert Herndon

SP4 David Leroy Eggleston (door gunner pictured at far left in first image)

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The next four [4] images come from the text "Ranger" by Ron Field.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/1970_02.jpg

 

1970 - P Company [Ranger], 75th Infantry [Airborne], near DMZ, 1970. The center Ranger [name unknown] is wearing both M-1967 MLCE individual equipment belt suspenders and small arms ammunition cases.

 

POST #1 - PART FOUR:

 

post-3045-0-15106100-1466090679.jpg

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http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/1970_01.jpg

 

1970 - H Company [Ranger], 75th Infanrty [Airborne], Phouc Vinh, November 1970. Al Rapp applies camouflage face paint to Glen McCrary's face. McCrary is wearing a pair of M-1967 MLCE individual equipment belt suspenders.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/hausmann_71.jpg

 

1971 - Clem Hausman of the 62nd IPCT attached to the 1st Cavalry Division [Airmobile], United States Army in 1971. The M-1967 individual equipment belt suspenders are being worn.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/miller_taylor_1971.jpg

 

1971 - Miller Taylor, unknown unit, United States Army in 1971. Attached to the rucksack is a M-1967 water canteen cover.

 

POST #1 - PART FIVE:

 

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post-3045-0-09774200-1466091076.jpg

 

post-3045-0-86218100-1466091082.jpg

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Part Two

United States Marine Corps

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/saigon1975.jpg

 

1975 - United States Marine atop the U.S. embassy wall in Saigon, 29 April 1975 during Operation Frequent Wind. Visible are the M-1967 small arms ammunition case [30-round] and M-1967 intrenching tool carrier.

 

POST #2: Its both sad and great at the same time. In 2008 this was the only image that clearly showed one of the Marines at the Embassy during Operation Frequent Wind. Now, eight years later, there are dozens. The key is sorting out the small arms ammunition cases as some are the nylon 30-round while others are the LINCLOE cases. Due to the vast amount of images (that are currently available) from Frequent Wind, Eagle Pull, and Mayaguez I am currently working on a separate thread (in the vein of the water canteen cover and first aid dressing case) to sort through the images and the development of the Marine LINCLOE case.

 

This Associated Press image, which there are other angles, is the clearest version showing the Marine with the nylon LLCE intrenching tool carrier. In the highest resolution of the image the grenade straps can be made out on the nylon 30-round small arms ammunition case - thus eliminating it as being LINCLOE (as some others have stated) as the LINCLOE has the grenade pockets.

 

post-3045-0-94854900-1466280332.jpg

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Part Three

United States Navy

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/m1967_seal68.jpg

 

1968 - A U.S. Navy SEAL with Stoner and M-1967 water canteen cover attached to the individual equipment belt. The photograph is credited as being taken in 1968.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/007.jpg

 

1969-70 - A U.S. Navy SEAL circa 1969-70 with M-1967 individual equipment belt suspenders and M-1967 20-round small arms ammunition case. The rifle is a Colt Model 601.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/m1967_04.jpg

 

1969-70 - United States Navy SEALs. This image was already captioned when I found it. I do not believe it is 1967! The SEAL on the far left has a pair of M-1967 small arms ammunition cases. Of note is the SEAL second from right [standing] - he is holding a very rare CAR-15 Submachine Gun also known as a Colt Model 607.

 

POST #3: The first image was found to have come from the National Archives and dated 26 March 1968. I have seen the image captioned two different ways: (1) "A Navy SEAL in Vietnam keeps his Stoner 63 light machine gun at the ready while the rest of his squad prepares demolition charges on a Vietcong bunker. The weapon is fitted with a 150-round drum belt container and is fed from the left-hand side. The retracting handle is locked forward and the ejection port closed with a dust cover to minimize dirt entry." and (2) "26 March 1968, Tan Dinh Island, Republic of Vietnam. Wearing a jaunty tiger-striped beret, this SEAL keeps his 150-round drum-fed Stoner 63 at the ready while the rest of his squad prepares demolition charges on a VC bunker. Note the right side charging handle and the spring loaded dust cover is closed over the ejection port to minimize dirt entry."

 

The SEAL, in the image, has been identified as Rex Davis. And, I was wrong with my original description as to the water canteen cover. The first nylon LLCE water canteen covers were shipped to Vietnam on 20 August 1968 (Defense Supply Agency, ACSFOR DS Status Report, dated 31 December 1968). So the water canteen cover is actually one of the nylon M-1956 LLCE trial/test water canteen covers.

 

post-3045-0-57916700-1466282484.jpg

 

Unfortunately, I have lost the second image. I have searched everywhere for it...so I am hoping someone has saved it. As I believe the equipment being used by the SEAL is actually nylon M-1956 LLCE trial/test items (suspenders and ammunition case).

 

This last image of SEAL Team 2 is dated, by the person that posted it, 1967. I initially (ignorantly) dismissed the image as being mis-dated. When, actually, the small arms ammunition cases are the nylon M-1956 LLCE trial/test version (being worn by Sam Fornier). What I did not notice, originally, is that the SEAL at the bottom right (Gunther Jaunzems) is wearing both the nylon M-1956 LLCE trial/test suspenders and the second version of the 1966 grenade carrier vest while the SEAL next to him (Doc "Shorty" Long) is also wearing the nylon M-1956 LLCE trial/test suspenders.

 

post-3045-0-32412700-1466283024.jpg

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Troopers from D Company, 2/8 Cavalry, Xuân Lộc, Dong Nai Province, South Vietnam, 1971. The trooper on the right has a 30-round M-1967 small arms ammunition case.

 

POST #14: Since I am re-posting the original images and correcting myself along the way: the 30-round nylon small arms ammunition case was not part of the nylon LLCE or M-1967 LLCE systems. It was developed separately in conjunction with the development of the 30-round cartridge magazine. It did borrow elements from the 20-round small arms ammunition case; the trial/test version had the nylon web "wings" that the 20-round cases have, but they were eliminated on the standardized case.

 

More information on the image: the unit has been further identified as D Company's "Skull Platoon" but no specific date other than 1971. The individuals that have been identified (by Robin Woo): Charlie Williams, Jr. "holding baby girl whose foot is injured," Medic Tony ("Doc") Diaz "treats baby's foot," Robin Woo (second from right), Dan Beese (center kneeling with camera in hand), Marc Zamora (third from right), and Lieutenant McConnaughhay (upper left).

 

post-3045-0-55825200-1466541616.jpg

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Both the following images are of RTO [rank unknown] Peter Guthrie, Charlie Company, 1/9 Cavalry, unknown location in South Vietnam. Date is either late 1969 or early 1970. Both the small arms ammunition cases are M-1967 MLCE.

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/guthrie_01.jpg

 

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/sgtmonroe/m1967/guthrie_02.jpg

 

 

and the suspenders too...

 

 

Hello,

 

post #15 is a superb image. Thanks for posting.

 

 

Patrick.

 

Unfortunately, again, I have lost the two original images from Post #15. Hopefully someone has retained them! The reason these images were so interesting was that they illustrated a grunt with the nylon LLCE equipments. There had been some banter on another forum that only LRRPs, Rangers, SEALs, SF, etc. were getting the nylon equipments...which was a totally unfounded statement. The nylon equipments were for service wide issuance in Southeast Asia. I have not come across a document stating that they were intended for one certain service or group.

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Dave Weeks, L Company [Ranger], 101st Airborne Division. Unknown location in South Vietnam. Date is late 1969 or early 1970 [photograph by Robin Kristiansen]. Weeks is wearing the M-1967 MLCE individual equipment belt suspenders.

 

Post #17: of course they are the nylon LLCE suspenders:

 

post-3045-0-06028500-1466721357.jpg

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Rangers Byrd (left) and Wolfiel; L Company (Ranger), 101st Airborne Division, unknown location in South Vietnam; August 1970. Wolfiel has a pair of M-1967 MLCE small arms ammunition cases.

 

Post #20 (Part One): I have, yet again, lost the image that was originally in this post. But, I do have another from the same series of photographs (taken by Tom Delaney) showing Carl "Doc" Wolfiel with the nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition cases. From left to right: Mike Vanning, Carl Ostrom, and Carl "Doc" Wohlfiel:

 

post-3045-0-57107000-1466723814.jpg

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Post #20 (Part Two):

 

Here is a list of the other equipment I have or have seen (with contract information):

 

Belt, Individual Equipment
FSN 8465-935-6815 (medium)
FSN 8465-935-6816 (large)
DSA 100-68-C-2566 - no manufacturer listed
Only one known contract is issued for the individual equipment belt in 1968. Most nomenclature and contract information printed on these individual equipment belts is illegible.

 

post-3045-0-38655800-1466724248.jpg

 

Only one contract was awarded for the nylon LLCE BELT, INDIVIDUAL EQUIPMENT which was DSA100-68-C-2566. The belt was produced with both the standard M-1956 buckle or the Davis quick-release buckle. The contract was awarded to MILCOM PRODUCTS INC of Rochester, New York in June 1968 (with an estimated contract completion date of December 1968).

 

Below is the notice of shipment (on 5 September 1968) of 36,018 medium belts and 9,004 large belts from Dover AFB to Da Nang, RVN. I do not know if this was the complete contract fulfillment or if they just sent what had been manufactured at this point:

 

post-3045-0-45477800-1466724920.jpg

 

Carrier, Intrenching Tool
FSN 8465-935-6826
DSA 100-68-C-2833 - no manufacturer listed

DSA 100-69-C-1711 - Eastern Canvas Products Incorporated
DSA 100-70-C-0765 - R T Corporation
DSA 100-71-C-0416 - Eastern Canvas Products Incorporated
DSA 100-74-C-0097 - Eastern Canvas Products Incorporated
I believe there are contracts for 1972 and 1973.

 

post-3045-0-58478900-1466725424.jpg

 

The following contracts, for the nylon LLCE intrenching tool carrier, were probably the only ones to reach troops in Vietnam:

  • DSA100-68-C-2833 - awarded to PERFECTION SEAT COVER CO INC of Vincent, Alabama in June 1968 (with an estimated contract completion date of February 1969)
  • DSA100-69-C-1711 - awarded to EASTERN CANVAS PRODUCTS INC of Bayamon, Puerto Rico in April 1969 (with an estimated contract completion date of January 1970)
  • DSA100-70-C-0795 - awarded to ECT CORP of Fayetteville, North Carolina in October 1969 (with an estimated contract completion date of October 1970)

The other three contracts listed more than likely did not reach Vietnam before the withdrawal. There were no contracts issued in FY1972 or FY1973.

  • DSA100-71-C-0252 - awarded to ECT CORP of Fayetteville, North Carolina in August 1970 (with an estimated contract completion date of March 1971)
  • DSA100-71-C-0416 - awarded to EASTERN CANVAS PRODUCTS INC of Bayamon, Puerto Rico in October 1970 (with an estimated contract completion date of April 1971)
  • DSA100-74-C-0097 - awarded to EASTERN CANVAS PRODUCTS INC of Corozal, Puerto Rico in July 1973 (with an estimated contract completion date of April 1974)

Carrier, Sleeping Equipment
FSN 8465-935-6813
DSA 100-68-C-2549 - no manufacturer listed

 

Only one contract was issued for the nylon LLCE CARRIER, SLEEPING EQUIPMENT which was DSA100-68-C-2549. At least 14,000 carriers were shipped to RVN on 29 August 1968 (Defense Supply Agency, ACSFOR DS Status Report, dated 31 December 1968). The contract was awarded to LA CROSSE GARMENT MFG CO INC of Maustin, Wisconsin in May 1968 (with an estimated contract completion date of November 1968).

 

Case, Field First Aid Dressing - Unmounted Magnetic Compass

FSN 8465-935-6814
DSA 100-68-C-2743 - no manufacturer listed

 

post-3045-0-62378300-1466727473.jpgpost-3045-0-34886800-1466727482.jpg

 

Only one contract was issued for the nylon LLCE field first aid dressing/unmounted magnetic compass case (with the plastic snap fastener) which was DSA100-68-C-2743. At least 16,000 cases were shipped to RVN on 30 August 1968 (Defense Supply Agency, ACSFOR DS Status Report, dated 31 December 1968). The contract was awarded to NATIONAL LINE CO of Dora, Alabama in June 1968 (with an estimated contract completion date of December 1968).

 

Case, Small Arms Ammunition

FSN 8465-935-6780

DSA 100-68-C-2778 - no manufacturer listed

DSA 100-69-C-2177 - Eastern Canvas Products Incorporated
I have a 1970 contract case but everything is illegible.

 

post-3045-0-14603200-1466728827.jpg

 

The following contracts, for the nylon LLCE 20-round small arms ammunition case, were probably the only ones to reach troops in Vietnam:

  • DSA100-68-C-2778 - was awarded to EASTERN CANVAS PRODUCTS INC of Corozal, Puerto Rico in June 1968 (with an estimated completion date of February 1969).
  • DSA100-69-C-2177 - was awarded to EASTERN CANVAS PRODUCTS INC of Bayamon, Puerto Rico in April 1969 (with an estimated completion date of February 1970).
  • DSA100-70-C-0317 - was awarded to REBMAR INC (a subsidiary of EASTERN CANVAS PRODUCTS INC) of Corozal, Puerto Rico in August 1969 (with an estimated completion date of July 1970).
  • DSA100-70-C-1335 - was awarded to BYER MFG CO of Orono, Maine in January 1970 (with an estimated completion dare of December 1970).
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