Jump to content

M-1967 Modernized Load-Carrying Equipment, 1968-1975


Recommended Posts

Anyone who collects M-1967 equipment will recall about 15 years ago it was nearly impossible to find the M-1967 suspenders. At that time I had only seen a couple of ratty torn up ones and the dealers wanted a mint for them. Then about 5 years ago, WHAM, the bottom fell out as a couple of large military surplus wholesalers [Atlanco being one] ended up with crates and crates of them...at one point Cheaper Than Dirt was selling them for 0.99 - yes - what used to be worth upwards of a hundred dollars in the early 1990s was going for less than a buck - least to say I bought all I could from CTD.

 

So my theory has been, since the suspender boom, is that there is some warehouse, somewhere in the States crammed full of butt packs.

 

There were M-1967 MLCE M14 magazine pouches produced [whether in large numbers I have no clue] that were the same as pictured in the 1970 hot weather manual. I doubt the US government would go as far as assigning a FSN to item that was just a "prototype". Here is the info directly from the DLA for FSN 8465-141-0928:

 

NIIN 001410928: CASE,SMALL ARMS AMMUNITION

ATTACHMENT METHOD: SLIDE LOCK KEEPER AND

ATTACHMENT METHOD: STRAP W/SNAP HOOK

SECURING DEVICE TYPE: SPRING ACTION QUICK RELEASE LATCH

SHADE SOURCE: US ARMY

SHADE IDENTIFICATION: 106

HAND GRENADE ATTACHING FEATURE LOCATION: BOTH SIDES

FLAP: INCLUDED

SPECIAL FEATURES: PLASTIC SECURING DEVICE,W/STRAPS FOR ATTACHING HAND GRENADES,ACCOMMODATES 20 RD MAGAZINE FOR M14 RIFLE

COLOR: GREEN, OLIVE

MATERIAL: DUCK, NYLON

 

This is something that the wise man [aka Webcat] did confirm as existing. Of course, I have never seen one outside of the picture in the 1970 hot weather manual.

 

BTW Craig, what happened to Webcat? I just recently ran across his name in one of Stanton's books...least to say it brought a smile to my face.

Link to post
Share on other sites
craig_pickrall

He is alive and kicking and knows about this forum but so far he has not joined. That is, as far as I know he hasn't, he might be a closet member just observing and laughing at us discussing all this stuff he forgot about 20 years ago.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sgtmonroe has been gathering gear and data on late Vietnam nylon gear and immediate post war nylon gear for the several years I have known him. I do not know of anyone that knows more about this particular era equipment. If he gives an estimate of the M67 Butt Pack being produced in only 1968 I will believe him. We all have been looking for photo or printed proof for years but so far no luck. Maybe one day.

 

As to the list of comments in the quote above I would like to be sure I understand this correctly. I think this is your personal theory and not necessairly the theory of the collector community at large. Is this correct? I know personally I have been collecting this gear almost from the beginning of production and I don't agree with a lot of your theory.

 

Some of the points I disagree with are as follows:

 

2nd paragraph - They made the magazine pouches in nylon for the M14 magazines. There were versions with and without the side straps for grenades.

 

3rd para - There is photo proof of Davis buckles in use with M67 nylon belts. For one see the manual photos I posted above. I have 11 of these belts and 9 of them have Davis buckles.

 

9th para - The butt pack was not part of the ALICE system. You can not find it in any version of FM 21-15 used during the ALICE period. The 1977 version was the first issue to give the main coverage to ALICE but there was a separate section that covered the older M56 / M67 gear since there was still so much of it in the system. There is no discussion of using the butt pack along with the ALICE pack.

 

10th para - The government does not use patent dates.

 

The only thing I see in your theory is the conclusions you have drawn from photos and data posted by other members of this forum. You have not introduced any new data or photos of your own. Do you have any other documentation for your conclusions? If so, I for one, would love to see them.

Creg i v got nothing against sgtmonroe & i think he's a very good gentleman & im sure he's an expert in the field...the same opinion i have for you

 

yes this theory is my personal theory but my theory cannot hurt any one...is just a guess of what hapened to the butt packs & we have'nt seen one ever

 

the points of dissagreement

 

2nd paragraph-Craig this one in the manual is an experimental army M14 pouch.the army M67 M16E1 30rd pouch can accomodate 2 M14 magazines so probably no need for a specific M14 pouch...you probably talking about the navy M14 pouch but the navy one is not like this one here...has no grenade straps & not suspender suporting strap & hook & it was probably part of the marine M67 system missidentified as navy

 

3rd para-yes...my mistake...you are right...they were plenty of davis M67s...

 

 

9th para-i dont say that is part of the ALICE system...but what you call a butt pack dated 1986?!!! like it or not the pack in this very late date goes along the ALICE system. you say is not in the field manuals? why an official item in full production & wide distribution in the army "even as a training pack" is not in the field manuals? you mean it's use in grenada panama & first gulf war as a real combat pack was unofficial?were they privately purchaced by the soldiers?!!!

 

10th para-i dont know...maybe you'r right

 

sorry craig but on the subject nylon butt pack i dont have documentation bc is an elusive item..that's why i make theories about it....i dont steal data from other members...simply when i see a good foto i give gongratulations & maybe i drop a line with some extra info & in general i'm trying to be an active member of the forum-i dont post fotos bc i cannot upload them...here in the forum there's a limit of 150 kilobytes & for some reason my attachments ecceeding the 350 kilobytes!

 

 

thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sgtmonroe: Im looking on FSN of fieldpack and Im interesting where did you find it?

It seems like NSN for modern training pack with aded 00 (NSN 8465-00-935-6825). This is strange, like as some derivate...?

When I read TM 10-276 from AUG, 1970 I find FSN 8465-577-4921 for descibed nylom fieldpack, but this is FSN for M56 buttpack. Why they used FSN for cotton fieldpack for M67 and why in 1970 when it could have been used correct M67? It seems like no FSN or no contract was for nylon buttpack this time. It could feel, that nylon buttpack was produced after this time. Has anybody seen nylon buttpack with markings before 1973?

But as you wrote above, its a part of big mistery of magic nam nylon fieldpack :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

My two cents. I've been lucky enough over many years of collecting to find a few pieces of experimental gear. I've posted pics of most of them here. Like SgtMonroe said, I can remember when the M1967 suspenders were rare. I hope there is a warehouse full of the butt packs out there but in all my years of collecting I've never heard of a set dated in the 1968 time frame. I've also never seen photographic evidence of their existence. I have an almost complete set of the USMC M1967 gear that was very difficult to find (and is in VERY used condition). I can only hope at this point that they will be discovered some day but my gut feeling is that they were never made because the tropical rucksack was deemed satisfactory for the purpose the butt pack would serve. A fellow collector sent me the following photo of an ammo pouch that may or may not be the one refered to earlier.

post-192-1223642016.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

I also found the following canteen cover on ebay awhile ago but was outbid by "The Guru". If I remember correctly the seller listed the nomenclature on the reverse and the wording reminded me of the experimental e-tool cover I have. Either way, the plastic slide keepers are what I originally saw that made me think this was part of the experimental gear. So do I believe the army made the butt packs, no. Will I keep looking for them, Yes. ;)

Tim

post-192-1223642298.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sgtmonroe: Im looking on FSN of fieldpack and Im interesting where did you find it?

It seems like NSN for modern training pack with aded 00 (NSN 8465-00-935-6825). This is strange, like as some derivate...?

 

You are right...the FSN for the M-1967 MLCE field pack is the same as the NSN for the later training pack. The extra "00" was added to the stock number after 1973 to indicate the item was type classified and adopted into service prior to 1973. If you notice the M-1967 MLCE field first aid dressing case and water canteen cover have the same stock number as their ALICE counterparts but with the added "00".

 

Another note about the 1970 hot weather manual - the "Short Federal Stock Number Nomenclature" table lists the M-1956 individual equipment belt suspenders, water canteen cover, intrenching tool carrier, and field first aid dressing case and not the M-1967 versions - this also goes for the later FM 21-15 manuals - they only list the M-1967 individual equipment belt and small arms ammunition cases.

 

Keystone,

 

The magazine case you show was one of the prototypes tested during the early LINCLOE days [that began in 1965]. I have seen a few of those over the years - but have never quite had the funds to purchase one! I have the LINCLOE final report somewhere and have been trying to find it as it lists all kinds of strange goodies that were tested and didn't make the cut including a mesh-bottom nylon canteen cover and the e-tool cover that appears in TC 23-14.

 

book_2.jpg

 

M1967_carrier_front.jpg

 

The water canteen cover does appear correct as I have seen an experimental first aid/compass case [again a day late and dollar short to buy it] with the same type of belt attachment.

 

Of course Craig has a few experimental M-1967 items including the grenade carrier pictured in Stanton's book.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to tell you but I picked up that cover on ebay for $12. I later picked up the nylon version of the M1956 cover with a 1967 True Temper made tri-fold e-tool from Bay State militaria.

Tim

Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the surplus stores near Ft Bragg has a huge box of Tri-fold shovels.

 

My buddy pulled out a 1968 and 1969 dated ones on top, just a week ago

Link to post
Share on other sites

My 1967 dated shovel is constructed differently than my 68 and 69 dated examples. The 67 dated one has a deep groove down the blade. The 68 and 69 examples are slightly different from the 70's dated models in that they have 4 rivets holding the blade to the handle as opposed to three for the later models. (ok now I'm getting picky!!)

post-192-1223671527.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

the experimental items is an interesting but very confusing story...definitely is not my cup of tea & i'll stick only to the items officially adopted & used in combat in quantity...that will make my life easy & i'll stop fighting with the ppl for no reason

Link to post
Share on other sites
I hate to tell you but I picked up that cover on ebay for $12. I later picked up the nylon version of the M1956 cover with a 1967 True Temper made tri-fold e-tool from Bay State militaria.

 

That is great! The M-1956 nylon version is definately a find. I think Craig said he had only seen one other in a museum somewhere. I have never seen an actual one until today [outside of the TM]. Again, good job!

Link to post
Share on other sites
craig_pickrall

The QM Museum at Ft Lee used to have lots of experimental gear on display. They redesigned the museum several years ago and all that stuff disappeared. That was the only one of the experimental nylon covers I have ever seen and I'm not sure now if it was M56 or M67 EXP type.

 

The M56 version has been posted here fairly recently and reported as being USMC. I think they also had USMC suspenders with it and the button on back of the cover fit a slot on the suspenders. The reason given was the M41 USMC pack was not slotted to allow the M56 belt slides. I'm not sure where that post is so hopefully someone reading this can link to it.

 

Tim can you post a pic of the label on the M67 and if the M56 has any marking please post those as well.

 

Your experimental gear collection is always impressive.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the set of USMC suspenders that have the indentation that exactly fits the brass swivel on the M56 e-tool cover:

post-192-1223677334.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are the markings on the inside cover of the M67 e-tool carrier. The M56 carrier is unmarked. The markings read "Carrier Lightwieght Intrenching Tool, September 1967"

post-192-1223677397.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
craig_pickrall

Thank you for showing them, that is a great set of gear.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.