The bring-back stories

[Bob Hudson]

Right after WWII ended, some enterprising Germans took pieces made for officer daggers and put them together with engraved blades specifically for sale to American occupation forces. These would have been made starting in 1946, according to everything I've read, and produced until Germany banned swastikas a few years later. The blades on these daggers-from-parts were stamped "Germany."

 

This Luftwaffe ttpe one style came from the family of a US admiral who flew during Operation Dragoon, the invasion of southern France. The family firmly believes that he picked it up in Casablanca before returning stateside long before 1946. They also had a small Dutch naval dirk that is, according to the family, a German Navy dagger, also pickied up in Casablanca. It is also stamped "Germany."

 

 

 

I recently bought some German edged weapons from someone who insisted his grandfather - a Marine in the Pacific - brought them home from the war.

[doyler]

These Luft and Navy types will often come with a scabbard made of immitation black leather.I have encountered the SA "parts" dagger as well and these will have a plastic type handle opposed to the wood.

[Bob Hudson]

These Luft and Navy types will often come with a scabbard made of immitation black leather.I have encountered the SA "parts" dagger as well and these will have a plastic type handle opposed to the wood.

 

 

There is such a scabbard with the the Luft-style dagger. I wonder what was the difference in cost between one of these parts daggers and an authentic issue dagger at the war's end? I also wonder how often the vet bought these faked pieces from a mailorder catalog AFTER returning home from the war?

[Bodes]

Unique Imports out of Alexandria, Virginia sold German parts daggers in the 70's.....As for the plastic handled SA daggers, I was at an estate sale in April and there were two of them there....The seller was asking $100/piece minus the scabbards....Bodes

[doyler]

Im not sure there was a big differance back then in price or even concern from the dagger being parts or original.My dad recalled seeing daggers at the gunshows back in the late 50s early 60s from $10-$15-$25.Fair money then.

 

The economy in Germany was looking for any way to bounce back and assembling these daggers from parts was a way to generate income.Seems odd to many when there was so much(real) laying around that this would need done.I have met vets who served in the 1948-1955 era or past who bought these parts daggers.They were either collecctors or just looking for a war souviener from WW2.There were badge firms I heaar that were stamping out badges very soon after the war as well to feed the souvieneer buyers.

 

I recall seeing adds in the old gun magazines around 1968-70 where Carl Eickhorn company was selling a gahher based on the Navy model as well as a Teno type hewer and a Hunting Association and Forestry model.All the same pattern of the WW2 models san crooked cross.The German boy scout knives were the same as the HJ knives just the lack of motto and the emblem in the handle.

[doyler]

Unique Imports out of Alexandria, Virginia sold German parts daggers in the 70's.....As for the plastic handled SA daggers, I was at an estate sale in April and there were two of them there....The seller was asking $100/piece minus the scabbards....Bodes

Not a bad price and they are often with out scabbards.These are beginning to be collectible on their own.There can be real parts but as time went on the blade was made too.Im sure Oergen Petersen had them brought in back in the day of Collectors Armory and Unique Imports.WW2 LTD out of St.Louis sold the HJ knives.I still have one I got in 1975 for a birthday gift.Nicer quality then he stuff today.

 

You will see the SA with a square/checker board type maker mark at times or the mark BAA as Bobs dagger.

[Bob Hudson]

I am going out today to buy a genuine Lift dagger the selller insists is a Marine's war souvenir.

[sgtdorango]

possible the marine did some horse trading for it aboard ship with sailors that might have also been in the eto?....mike

[doyler]

possible the marine did some horse trading for it aboard ship with sailors that might have also been in the eto?....mike

Always possible.Have a few items from Navy officer both German and Japanese.He was in the Med and pacific.

[mikie]

possible the marine did some horse trading for it aboard ship with sailors that might have also been in the eto?....mike

That brought this Up Front to mind...

[Marksman]

I know that some companies even produce "higher and rare" badges on the original dies just to sell them to allied soldiers. Even Helmets were rebuild from parts.

 

At this time - its ok - they found a new buisiness and nobody were shure if someone ever would collect those stuff.

 

My Aunt sold some GIs a lot of stuff - she worked in an uniform company and took a few things at home - finished the parts and sold them. Her Husband - my uncle (a Oberfeldwebel) - told some storys that this were his uniforms and the prospective buyer fall for it.

 

Thats they way the guys made some money over here.

[dave peifer]

there were indeed daggers sold to gi's in 1945 right after the war was over,out of all original parts in all kinds of configurations.as well as medals,badges and uniforms.the same thing has been going on in iraq today since early in that war.............dave

[Bob Hudson]

there were indeed daggers sold to gi's in 1945 right after the war was over...

 

The admiral left the ETO in 1944 well before these parts daggers were made, so the family story that he picked them up in Casablanca is missing something,

 

Here's one from another family that says this was brought home by a Marine who served in the Pacific (this is the real thing, not a parts piece):

 

 

Makes you wonder how many "vet bringbacks" were picked up stateside rather than overseas? i suspect a lot more than we think.

[dave peifer]

i believe a lot of veterans bought relics of their service at many times and places after their service.at a show or flea market,wanting to have a dagger or nazi badge that they didn't get while overseas.and many times,with the pasage of time really forget where they came from,or when they pass the family has no idea what they have,just that "this was with dads stuff"i bought a group from a vietnam vet long ago that included two vc flags,knowing they didn't look period i questioned the vet who said "oh,i bought them some where after the war,i forget" as to the 1st luft dagger,that may have been a trade from someone that served in the eto,or perhaps belonged to another family member or relative who served...............dave

[Bob Hudson]

as to the 1st luft dagger,that may have been a trade from someone that served in the eto,or perhaps belonged to another family member or relative who served...............dave

 

You don't think he took it from an off-course Luftwaffe pilot who crashed on Guadalcanal?

 

I think this all shows how much war trophies were coveted that GI's.

[doyler]

Agree with Dave.Very common scenario.

 

When I lived in Galveston I heard stories fr at our local flea market there was an old boyom my boss when he was a kid and saw Samurai sword piled 4 foot deep in thw windows of the pawn shop there.Lots of stuff from both sides of the war.Seems guys got off ships and were cashing out.Even as a boy in the 70s I saw pistols,daggers,bayonets etc in our local dive for purchase.

 

Also at our local fleamarket there was an old boy who was a WW2 vet would come around in the 70s and pull german medals out of his pockets or a bag and ask if you wanted to buy them.The medals were german and very poor sand cast and painted copies.Im thinking he bought these through WW2 Limited or Unique Imports who advertised in the gun magazines then.Not sure he knew or cared if they were fakes.Years later when he died and an auctioneer was selling off the estate they found several real items he had rought back..SS overseas caps cuff titles,armbands etc.

[doyler]

You don't think he took it from an off-course Luftwaffe pilot who crashed on Guadalcanal?

 

I think this all shows how much wear trophies were coveted that GI's.

 

LOL...yes there were german advisors there

[dave peifer]

we can never say never..........anything is possible..............

[manayunkman]

The only vet I know who collected after the war was the late Jack Maxwell.

 

Dave knows who I'm talking about.

 

Personally I never met a vet with a fake or something put together after the war.

 

But I have met vets who said they captured a General but the stuff was really from a railway policeman.

 

Or they had Herman Goring's uniform but it was really a highly decorated Luftwaffe elevator operator.

 

Or they won the stuff in a crap game aboard ship.

 

Or they stole it from someone else.

 

I was at a well known Gettysburg dealer's shop in 1976 when a guy pulls up in a station wagon full to the ceiling with Nazi stuff.

 

Turns out he worked in the post office at Camp Lucky Strike and when ever he saw a packaged he liked the looks of he changed the address to his.

 

On my newspaper route in West Chester New York a Marine Corps Colonel had some 30 plus Japanese swords that he had confiscated from his men.

 

Another guy on my route an engineer Major, he and his men took over a German warehouse at the end of the war.

 

It was full of German unissued uniforms especially army parade dress jackets with different waffenfarb.

 

When ever they unpacked a crate he filled it with jackets and sent it home.

 

Over the years until the late 70's I got over 100 jackets from him for 2 to 5 bucks a piece and would sell them at a small White Plains military show for 5.00 to 10.00 each.

 

When he died in 1980 he still had tons of them left but who knows where they went.

 

Another guy on my route had a load of gold and silver trinkets from Germany.

 

And then there was the guy with hundreds of nazi flags found in the basement of a German school.

 

He was a quartermaster and loaded them up on his truck.

 

He handed them out to everyone he met or they would fall of the truck as he went around a corner.

 

I bought most of the ones left for $1.00 each and sold them for $1.50 each.

 

I found out later that they were mostly Hitler Youth flags of all types.

 

On the very first day doing my newspaper route I was knocking on everyones door and introducing myself.

 

I was 12 and it was 1968.

 

An old timer answered the door and ended up giving me a Spanish uniform.

 

At that time I had never even heard of the Spanish American war and was amazed we had fought Spain.

 

He had brought the uniform back from Porto Rico.

 

Over the years I have heard every kind of story imaginable but never met a vet with a fake.

[Brig]

I am going out today to buy a genuine Lift dagger the selller insists is a Marine's war souvenir.

 

 

possible the marine did some horse trading for it aboard ship with sailors that might have also been in the eto?....mike

 

 

Always possible.Have a few items from Navy officer both German and Japanese.He was in the Med and pacific.

 

Marines were on ship detachments in Europe, and even contributed directly to the Normandy Invasion aboard ship, serving as sharpshooters to target mines in the water. I'm sure there were times, especially at the end, when Marines got off at port

[Bob Hudson]

Marines were on ship detachments in Europe, and even contributed directly to the Normandy Invasion aboard ship, serving as sharpshooters to target mines in the water. I'm sure there were times, especially at the end, when Marines got off at port

 

This Marine was in New Zealand, Guadalcanal and Bougainville. The last part of the war he spent on the East Coast as a motor pool sergeant. I suspect it was there he picked up the Luft dagger. He also left his grandson an SA dagger, a Japanese officer's katana, a 19th century Spanish sword in a 1943 British Commonwealth scabbard, and an original Raiders F-S dagger - clearly he wanted spoils of war and got some good ones even he may have bought a lot of it stateside.

 

But I'm sure most families prefer the tale of how their vet took the spoils from an enemy officer he captured.

[Brig]

Sounds like he liked blades

[sgtmonroe]

 

But I'm sure most families prefer the tale of how their vet took the spoils from an enemy officer he captured.

 

So true, I had a great-uncle that had a shadow box on a wall in his den with a Luger and some misc. German insignia in it. He was a cook during the Great War, but would tell anyone who listened that he killed a German officer and took the Luger off of him. My father used to call him on it all the time.

 

I have a different Luger that was passed down from my grandfather (to my father and then to me), that my father knew the REAL story of. My grandfather would say that he "got it off a dead Kraut," even though he was AAF in the Pacific Theatre. My father said that my grandfather had horse traded souvenirs he got in the Pacific to someone that had been in the ETO for the Luger. The actual transaction occurred STATESIDE sometime in 1946/47. He obviously he got a Westwall Medal in the trade too (I dunno why) as after he died my grandmother was cleaning out his stuff and found the medal and started to throw it away. I asked (I think I was around 10-11) if I could have it, she asked why I would want that "disgusting NATZEE thing." Still got it.

 

Makes me wonder how many souvenirs ended up in landfills!

[Thor996]

 

 

Makes me wonder how many souvenirs ended up in landfills!

 

enough to make us all cry

 

[Bob Hudson]

 

 

Makes me wonder how many souvenirs ended up in landfills!

 

I sold that Luft dagger to a local collector today and, as I told him, these become increasingly rare as little old ladies continue to throw knives and swords in the trash so no one will hurt themself.