Jump to content

USMC department devices, Gunner Bombs, WO bars and band lyres


SgtMaddoxUSMC
 Share

Recommended Posts

SgtMaddoxUSMC

The next pair are identical to the last except the sword guard does not flare up (perhaps someone modified the last set or they were just bent?) and they have Tiffany clasps. Also these devices both have the H-H eagle on the rear of the sword hilt.

post-133515-0-17309700-1492734491_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SgtMaddoxUSMC

And, lastly, a boxed set of H-H / Imperial service devices, these are the same model as the ones in post 74 & 75.

post-133515-0-71509800-1492736085_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about the aviation insignia? I do not see a lot written about it. Was it just worn by cadets or did other officers wear it and in what capacity. Also, how do you tell the difference between a Marine emblem and an AAC emblem. Now I also know that MarCads wore the winged insignia in the 60 at Pensacola while going through flight training. How can one tell these apart from earlier badges? Just looking for a little knowledge. Thanks - Jeff

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SgtMaddoxUSMC

Jeff,

I don't know much about the aviation insignia, that is the one type of device from the original board that I own none of. I imagine that it was only worn by cadets as I haven't seen any photos of officers wearing them, but I could be wrong. One could also pose the question to the Band Lyres as I know the Army also wore them. There may be no difference in USMC / USA devices when it comes to lyres and cadet wings, but once again, I am unsure. As far as dating older devices from newer ones, I would think the hallmarks might be a good indicator - I know many suppliers changed the format of their individual hallmarks over time. Maybe someone with a deeper knowledge of this subject could shed some light on these questions. Just need to wait for them to stumble across this thread!

S/F
Maddox

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SgtMaddoxUSMC

Thank you Michael! I should have included that on the first page of the thread but I had forgotten about that reference! Great to see the devices in color! I think the only devices that I need to complete my collection are the matching mate to the earlier Paymaster device and also the silver and gold version of the same device. Michael, you should post a few photos of your USMC Aide devices since that does also fall into this category. I was not going to touch on them because I was pretty much following the original display as a template but the Aide devices would also be appropriate I think!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Erik

 

You posted in #20 a plate 26 from the 1937 Uniform Regulation but you forget to post the plate 28.

 

Michael

 

.

post-8324-0-30253200-1492888438_thumb.jpeg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SgtMaddoxUSMC

From "United States Marine Corps Ranks & Grades, 1775-1969" published by the Marine Corps Historical Division:

In the National Defense Act of 19 August 1916, the warrant officer grades of Marine Gunner and Quartermaster Clerk were established (20 of each being authorized). In 1918 the warrant rank Pay Clerk was also added. On 10 June 1926, the Chief warrant ranks were created resulting in Chief Marine Gunner, Chief Quartermaster Clerk and Chief Pay Clerk. The Marines holding Warrant ranks had to serve six years in grade and pass an examination to be promoted to the new Chief Warrant Officer rank. With this new designation came the first of the Warrant Officer bars that would eventually evolve into the Warrant Officer ranks that we know today. These ranks were abolished in WWII on 21 Oct 1943 and replaced them with Warrant Officer and Commissioned Warrant Officer.

Interestingly, although the Adjutant and Inspector's department is mentioned in the reference, the rank itself is not. They are seen in the 1917 revision of the 1912 Uniform Regulations so it would make sense that it was established around the same time as QM and Gunner. I have not found the full text of the 1916 NDA so I cannot verify.



USMC 1926 - 1943 Chief Warrant Officer bars. They are first seen in the 1929 Marine Corps uniform regulations.

post-133515-0-12092500-1493049060_thumb.jpg

Reverse:

post-133515-0-94204500-1493049095.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What about the aviation insignia? I do not see a lot written about it. Was it just worn by cadets or did other officers wear it and in what capacity. Also, how do you tell the difference between a Marine emblem and an AAC emblem. Now I also know that MarCads wore the winged insignia in the 60 at Pensacola while going through flight training. How can one tell these apart from earlier badges? Just looking for a little knowledge. Thanks - Jeff

The winged propeller insignia was worn by aviation cadets from 1935 through (I think) early '43. Under the 1935 program, the aviation cadets (who were officially in the reserve) actually flew in operational squadrons for three years after their training, so they were sort of like "third lieutenants." The navy aviation cadets wore a half-width officer's stripe. After their four year commitment, they could be commissioned in the regular corps or navy.

 

After 1939, I think, they were commissioned after completing flight training. During the war, the USMC's aviation cadet program was absorbed into the navy's, with the Marines getting a certain share of graduates. At that time, the cadet insignia became just the navy line star without any stripe.

 

 

Interestingly, although the Adjutant and Inspector's department is mentioned in the reference, the rank itself is not. They are seen in the 1917 revision of the 1912 Uniform Regulations so it would make sense that it was established around the same time as QM and Gunner. I have not found the full text of the 1916 NDA so I cannot verify.

Here you go, "An act making appropriations for the naval service for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and seventeen, and for other purposes," August 29, 1916:

 

post-3982-0-79307400-1493074803.jpg

 

 

Nice H&H CWO bars!

 

Justin B.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SgtMaddoxUSMC

So there is still no mention of A&I being established in the document... Guess the hunt for that answer will continue!


Here you go, "An act making appropriations for the naval service for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, nineteen hundred and seventeen, and for other purposes," August 29, 1916:

Nice H&H CWO bars!

Justin B.

Those suckers were hard to find! (and expensive once I did find them!)

Thanks Justin!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^I bet! It's interesting that even in 1937 when the lieutenant/captain bars changed to a smooth metal finish, the CWO bar was still specified with the false embroidered texture.

 

There was never a separate rank for A&I WOs. The Marine Corps designated some quartermaster clerks for the QM department and some for the A&I department, but they were all listed together as "Quartermaster Clerks."

 

Justin B.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

SgtMaddoxUSMC

There must be something somewhere in the orders that establishes the creation of the A&I insignia and sets forth the guidelines for QM's serving in that capacity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There must be something somewhere in the orders that establishes the creation of the A&I insignia and sets forth the guidelines for QM's serving in that capacity.

Hmmm, well, the A&I, QM and Pay insignia were for commissioned officers before they were for WOs and CWOs, and the officers didn't have any "extra" designation. There may have been written guidelines somewhere, but it could be as simple as wearing the device appropriate to current assignment.

 

Justin B.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
SgtMaddoxUSMC

Here is a photo of Colonel Cyrus S. Radford wearing dress QM devices on his standing collar. This is from the May 1918 issue of Recruiter's Bulletin.

post-133515-0-48248900-1494074374_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...