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Nuremberg War Trials Patch


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I agree its possible but for someone to be prior enlisted and then an officer I would expect to see more awards.

What are you basing this on? This is a typical Enlisted to Officer type setup....not everyone left the war with valor or achievement type awards.

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The 9th Division OCS posted is typical German construction method.

 

The Nuremberg War Trials Patch looks like a Eastern European reproduction. Unfortunately to get the answer you seek will need to do as Bill Scott has suggested, the rear of the patch will need to be exposed showing construction method. The backside of all insignia tells the entire story whether a item is real or just a cheap reproduction. Forgers have not been able to copy the German wartime construction methods even after 70 years.

 

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  • 6 months later...

This jacket is listed by this member (IP addresses match) on eBay as original, without ANY mention of the numerous concerns surrounding the Nuremberg patch. Sad, considering several of the major rare patch collectors in the hobby weighed in. I also find it interesting that despite the "$1000 offers" the poster allegedly received, he started it at $699.99 on eBay. Integrity and reputation is everything in this hobby.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/EXTREMELY-RARE-WWII-ERA-NUREMBERG-TRIALS-UNIFORM-WITH-BULLION-PATCHES-/112296419705?hash=item1a25636179:g:J-UAAOSw2xRYmos9

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Returns: "Not Accepted"

 

 

 

 

Is that really a sellers option..Im thinkimg ebays buyer program would disagree....

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Is that really a sellers option..Im thinkimg ebays buyer program would disagree....

Yep.. At the final, seller will be forced by eBay to offer return and give you a full refund. If not, eBay will refund you and seller will have some serious troubles.

 

Anyway, sad to see people can like that and trying to scam others collectors....

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Is that really a sellers option..Im thinkimg ebays buyer program would disagree....

 

They cannot return the item if its because they have buyers remorse, as in they believe they simply paid to much or even if they actually wanted to wear the uniform and it doesn't fit them. It is a different story if the uniform is not legit and they can prove that as fact. Because then its a simple matter of the item not being described properly or they were flat out being dishonest about the facts.

 

 

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Yep.. At the final, seller will be forced by eBay to offer return and give you a full refund. If not, eBay will refund you and seller will have some serious troubles.

 

Anyway, sad to see people can like that and trying to scam others collectors....

He obviously didn't want to take the answers as reality. Even from Bill Scott one of the most respected patch dealers out there.

 

I bet the person who offered '$1000' disappeared after they realized they were about to buy a fake.

 

Hope the OP is glad he basically ruined his reputation on this greedy move.

 

And returns are always accepted on eBay.

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So everyone....I kept off this thread until I had firm information. As many know, I am an advanced collector and dealer of high grade insignia. I am only chiming in because the young man took quite a beating, and I held my thoughts when someone questioned the textbook 9th infantry. Yes, the Lauer is a little odd. I was an active member of ASMIC in Germany for many years, and still have contacts with folks who have seen and own things that you can only dream of. Additionally, there is an individual over there who is THE EXPERT on Lauer and crawled all over the place since the 50s. He vouched for the DI.

Now moving on to the war crime trials patch--THERE IS NOTHING STANDARD ABOUT IT, BUT---I and my friends in Germany have seen many pieces special ordered, and in fact a Berlin piece on identical wool is in a collection of a well-known ASMIC member in Germany. So, I examined the pictures closely, I sent it to them, and we all agreed had a good shot at being real.

 

The young man was very diligent about making sure he made clear that he would take it back, and kept up with me until I was satisfied. Well, I got it today, and put it under 50XLED Blacklight, examined backing, under thread, under bullion, etc. Not one ounce of glow. Additionally, I have handled, and thrown in junk boxes, many paki pieces, and also some of Tackett's crap. This is not one of them.

 

Again, with better photos, the two most advanced ASMIC bullion collector in Germany like the patch. I like the patch, and it is in my opinion, not a variant, but a one of a kind...for whatever it is worth.

 

So, I own it. It is with three other bullion Nuremberg's in my collection, and that is that. None of the fakes stand up to 50XLED blacklight, period.

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I have also stayed off of this thread until the transaction was complete. Yes I did not list any of the previous concerns on this thread as it was several months old and I was in contact with several very knowledgeable collectors before I put this up for auction. Let me make something clear.

 

1. The gentleman who offered me the $1,000 for it did not go dark. He could not afford it at this time due to more important bills regarding to his family.

2. I did offer a 7-day return policy and always have on my auctions. There was a glitch through eBay that I reported to them. They informed me to just notify the seller at the end of the auction so they know.

3. I settled with a $700 opening bid as that is what I need in order to get my dog to help with my PTSD. Just because I start an auction lower than what I was offered does not mean i am not confident with my item. I knew what I needed to make (minimum) on this jacket and that is what I listed it for.

4. I am not a greedy person and my reputation does matter to me. I always guarantee my items as original or money back which I notified the seller of. The seller and I had been in constant communication over the past week regarding new information revealed to us from other very very intelligent collectors as the seller mentioned in his thread. The 9th ID as the seller mentioned is textbook and the fact that people were still questioning it is beyond me.

 

The individuals who saw this patch prior to the listing knew about this thread and also disagreed with what most of what was being said. The biggest concern was it not being a Paki fake but a Tackett fake as Pakis have no where close to the detail as this Nuremberg patch did. I also held off on shipping the item for the seller for two days so he could get a phone call back from his contacts in Germany. Once the DI was given the green light I sent it on its way. I also did not touch his money at all while he was inspecting it during his 7 day inspection time slot. If I was as greedy as some of you think I was trying to be, trust me that money would have been long gone. I have integrity and honor and I tend to preserve that as long as I am in this business. If I was truly selling a fake, I would have gone dark on the buyer but I did not. With 500 views and almost 60 watchers, this jacket should have sold for a lot more but as many collectors told me, this thread killed my auction. But that is truly okay. I was not in this for the money but to make sure this jacket went from one good home to another while still being able to pay some important bills. If you still think I am greedy or trying to scam people in this hobby then so be it, but you are incredibly wrong. At the end of the day, the collector who now has this is very happy with it and i am glad it has gone to another home to sit with more war trials patches.

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Maybe we can take a lesson from this post.I have no idea if this jacket/ crest/patche is correct or original...I have no idea if it's not correct and original. But it seems we have allowed our assumptions to get ahead of ourselves in some cases.

Aspersions have been cast and inflections on character have been bandied about.

Maybe more caution should be used in the future, there are many collectible things out in the world that do not present a concensus of authenticity.

 

I will say it was an auction...If you're not comfortable...Do not bid.

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The DUI, like much late and early post war German insignia, appears to be die cast from a cheap zinc based alloy. Paint and other finishes do not stick well to this material, hence the bubbling on the obverse. This is exactly what a piece of insignia like this should look like.

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Guess I wish we could find out the original owner of the jacket/blouse.

 

That to me is the more interesting story to me -- especially if the hole over the ribbons once held a CIB. My late father in law was at Nurenberg, but he was one of the 1st Infantry Division enlisted men who helped round them up and then guard them.

 

His uniform only reflected a 1st ID patch -- of which he was profoundly proud. His CIB, however, was purchased in Germany, was stamped metal with screw backs and would have made a hole just that size.

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I still do not like the patch at all.This type of wording on this insignia turned up about ten years ago along with stick pins that were mirrors of the District patch with War Crimes in the title.If its real the back of the patch would tell the story bur if the buyer is happy with it that's all that matters.Scotty

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That is true but the tide is turning. Wording is meaningless. I have sees so many weird things. The patch was discussed yesterday at asmic illesheim and they too are in agreement. Construction and materials. That is what matters. The wool is identical to ww2 German collar tab material and other special order patches from the period. We are entitled to assessments. That is what makes us a community of collectors. After I posted a number of other advanced dealers and collectors took a second look and are seeing what I see. Appreciate your opinion and my 30 years in biz and 20 in Europe taught me be cautious but expect unexpected

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I want make one thing clear. I think we should recognize that Scotty is intending to use his vast experience to protect our community and I value his input as I do many others'. My doubts were not put to rest until I had a chance to hold it any examine it in person. The workmanship is super and shows all hallmarks of German tailors. Details that are not apparent in photos

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This thread will closed.There are differing opinions and thoughts about this uniform and it is probably not going to move.If Josh decides to reveal the backside of the patch hopefully he will began a new thread or we can reopen this one.

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