WW1 Wings for discussion

[vonrall]

These have been out of circulation for about 25 years and were with a lot of insignia I bought with an old collection. They measure 69mm across and the letters are definitely seperately applied, sweated on . Don't know anything about wings but want to find out if they are real or not if possible. Posted them on another forum but did get anykind of conclusive answers. Opinions are appreciated!

[vonrall]

More details

[vonrall]

another

[vonrall]

last one-BTW they are unmarked

[pfrost]

Hi,

 

Like I said on the other forum, more than a few things seem at issue with this wing.

 

First, the pin is wrong for a WWI wing. Not to say that it isnt possible, but I have never seen a vintage WWI wing with this type of pin.

Second, the patina is very suspect. This blotchy look seems more like what you see from a chemically or arificially made patina versus a natural patina due to age.

Third, it is hard to tell any real details about the wing. It looks like it may be die struck (which is good) versus cast (which is a sign of a fake), but these wings have been die struck from the original NS Meyer dies (I believe in the mid-80s or so).

 

That makes me wonder if these were diestruck Meyer reproductions that had this non-typical pin put on to cover the Meyer's hallmark and then artificially aged to cover the alterations?

 

On the other hand, these may be good wings that had some funky pin assembly put on them for some reason and the patina just the way it turned out.

 

IMHO it will be hard to say which is true based only on these photos.

[vonrall]

Hi,

 

Like I said on the other forum, more than a few things seem at issue with this wing.

 

First, the pin is wrong for a WWI wing. Not to say that it isnt possible, but I have never seen a vintage WWI wing with this type of pin.

Second, the patina is very suspect. This blotchy look seems more like what you see from a chemically or arificially made patina versus a natural patina due to age.

Third, it is hard to tell any real details about the wing. It looks like it may be die struck (which is good) versus cast (which is a sign of a fake), but these wings have been die struck from the original NS Meyer dies (I believe in the mid-80s or so).

 

That makes me wonder if these were diestruck Meyer reproductions that had this non-typical pin put on to cover the Meyer's hallmark and then artificially aged to cover the alterations?

 

On the other hand, these may be good wings that had some funky pin assembly put on them for some reason and the patina just the way it turned out.

 

IMHO it will be hard to say which is true based only on these photos.

[vonrall]

Thanks for the reply. Since I will destroy them if I am convinced they are bad I want to get as many opinions as possible before I do something I may regret.

 

Great pup you have there! Bullmastiff?

[pfrost]

Hi,

 

I am not sure I would destroy them based on other people's opinion. To many people (myself included) base a lot of their analsyis on these things only on what we have seen, read about or owned at one time. But these WWI wings are rather rare and chances are good that most people will have only seen a small percentage of what was really available.

 

Yes, he is a bullmastif.

 

Patrick

[John Cooper]

The two things that stand out to me are the following:

 

Areas with no patina and appear to be rubbed clean i.e. tips of some of the feathers...

 

There does not seem to be any evidence of solder around the pin...

 

I would like to have them in had so a close inspection with a loupe.

 

 

John

[pconrad02]

Just to throw in my two cents, I have seen this type of pin fastening system on WWII and just post WWII insignia, so the wing may date from that period. Maybe a WWI die used to make a sweetheart piece, as is the case with those BB&B pattern pilot wings you see so often. I wouldn't destroy it in any case...

 

Paul

[none]

The pin back is WWII, you will notice the round ends under the catch and joint. So this would not have been a 1980's make or even later. It could have been a repair.

 

Do you have a real local jeweler or pawn shop that can test the US letters for you. If 10 or 14k gold sign it may be real. Also have them test the rest of the wing for sterling. The word sterling could have been in the center and would be hidden by the pin assembly.

You will need to clean the back for the next test. After cleaning, look very carefully towards the ends of the wings to determine if their are old solder marks where the original pin backs might have been. Very faint circles where the solder would have been.

On the front of the wing, look between the center shield and wing and see if their is any design between the wing and shield. If yes post a close up. While Meyer did not have a design some of the others did.

 

And to the statement about Meyer restikes in the 1980's. Meyer restrikes of this wing continues to this day by Fox Militeria with the letters US being seperately applied.

 

Joe

[vonrall]

The pin back is WWII, you will notice the round ends under the catch and joint. So this would not have been a 1980's make or even later. It could have been a repair.

 

Do you have a real local jeweler or pawn shop that can test the US letters for you. If 10 or 14k gold sign it may be real. Also have them test the rest of the wing for sterling. The word sterling could have been in the center and would be hidden by the pin assembly.

You will need to clean the back for the next test. After cleaning, look very carefully towards the ends of the wings to determine if their are old solder marks where the original pin backs might have been. Very faint circles where the solder would have been.

On the front of the wing, look between the center shield and wing and see if their is any design between the wing and shield. If yes post a close up. While Meyer did not have a design some of the others did.

 

And to the statement about Meyer restikes in the 1980's. Meyer restrikes of this wing continues to this day by Fox Militeria with the letters US being seperately applied.

 

Joe

 

Yikes!!!! Thanks for the reply. Frankly though my interest level is not enough to go through all of that and then pretty much be in the same boat even if it tests well. I'll just stick back where it came from and let my wife deal with it after I'm dead.