Watch out for the USS Maine Navy Officer Sword Belt plates

[Tim]

I is really amazing that there THREE of these on our favorite auction site.

[Tim]

This is the back of the third one.

You can be very creative with repro buckles and a set of letter stamps.

[268th C.A.]

Some one must have done some wreck diving. obviously these are fake. Thanks for posting! I like the torn belt material, that just adds too the never ending lenghts people will go too.

[Tim]

And the fakes just keep on coming.

[ludwigh1980]

That 2nd one is scary. the font and style of the lettering is correct for letter dies of the period and with gold gilt still in the recessed letters and then the wear down through the gold gilt, which looks like burnished fire gilt to me (which is also correct for the period and difficult to do, as the method typically required mercury. That piece might have gotten me, I admit.

[ludwigh1980]

The U.S.S. Maine was raised in 1911 by the U.S. Army Corp of Engineers and many pieces were recovered from the wreck including the brass fixtures some were melted down turned into souvenirs.

[ludwigh1980]

So the more I look at these and the more I research old auction lists, I wonder what determines that these are fake? Seems they made all kinds of objects from U.S.S. Maine brass, from napkin rings, bells, miniature anvils, tokens, charms, etc. I know there was a fair amount of weaponry salvaged from the Maine, too include colt pistols and 1895 Lee Navy rifles. I am all for learning. Educate me on why these are fake.

 

Respectfully,

Terry

[suwanneetrader]

Terry: I agree, USS Maine souvenirs are like the famous Revolutionary era Oak tree (I think it was the Charter Oak) when I first started collecting 1958 - 9 many were available at low pricing. I'm not saying all of these are real and I'm too lazy to go digging in my old files/ref. but I don't discount at least two of them. Richard

[Tim]

Factors to consider:

1. The top three were on eBay at the same time, listed by different sellers. Starting at $9.99 to 699.99

2.The are a poor quality sand casting in the two piece "Civil War " pattern.

3.The post 1911 regulation pattern would be the 1905 type. Pictured.

I could be wrong, but when it seems to good to true...

 

[ludwigh1980]

One of the above U.S.S. Maine Belt plates is listed by a well respected forum member

[Tim]

I am reconsidering my original premise; the above USN souvenir buckles maybe real, but until something is published, I would not buy one.

This buckle is now listed and I think it is a period souvenir. But the quality is such that I doubt it was made of USS Maine salvaged brass. But, it does not say what it is made of. I do not think it is made of brass, maybe a die-cast pot metal with a goldish finish that was applied before the letters were stamped on..

[Tim]

For reference: I am adding this good quality, reproduction of a Civil War period Plate/buckle. Note how the back of the wreath has been "cored" to prevent shrinkage and use less metal. This coring is usually done with a plain ring. I think this is an investment or lost wax process casting. A makers mark has been added to prevent faking.