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Unknown Beret Flash - Maybe 173d Abn?


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I picked this beret up recently - I presumed it was 173d Airborne's HQ flash, although the TIOH approved flash (2000) has a white border. Flash appears to be of three-piece construction: there's a backing of unknown material, and the blue and red are halves.

 

173d was using these colors on jump ovals (without the border) in the Vietnam era, so I thought it might be from the their pathfinders since it's on a black beret. I also wonder if some other unit appropriated these colors in the 70s after 173d was inactivated.

 

Then again, maybe it's put together. I still wonder about the flash itself, however. Thoughts?

 

post-257-0-96839600-1462847300.jpg

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I found a Jump Wing Oval similar to this last summer, and I'm assuming at one point the 173rd AB BCT HQ Flashes and Ovals didn't have the white border.

 

D

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I found a Jump Wing Oval similar to this last summer, and I'm assuming at one point the 173rd AB BCT HQ Flashes and Ovals didn't have the white border.

 

D

 

I'm going to assume that this the 173d HQ flash; however there wasn't any flash associated with their oval, in their first incarnation (1963-1971).

 

Seller described it as a "Type 1" although when I asked what the source was, I got no reply.

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I'm going to assume that this the 173d HQ flash; however there wasn't any flash associated with their oval, in their first incarnation (1963-1971).

 

Seller described it as a "Type 1" although when I asked what the source was, I got no reply.

 

Not sure when the oval was first introduced but it's a cut-edge oval much like the Flash as well, it's a different material than the other ones I purchased with it, which also had the merrowed edges.

 

 

D

post-34988-0-07550600-1462858040.png

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The only Flash of this design that I am familiar with was for the 128th QM Company (Rigger) of the CA ARNG.

They were made by using magic markers to color the upper portion of a 17th Cav. flash. There were also a few felt versions made by individuals of the unit also. But they were worn on maroon berets not black..

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If 468abnarm doesn't recognize it, it's probably not safe to assume it's a 173rd flash.

 

If it were mine I'd start to look into ROTC and JROTC flashes, as that might be where the answer is.

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OK gents, thanks for the responses. The seller answered, and stated "We found a reference of it in Barry Stein's The US Army Patch Book, page 78A Plate 78 Identified as 173d Abn. BDE. HHC #1 The second type has a white border around it." I don't know what edition of Stein's book he has, however.

 

Does anyone have Stein's book handy?

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OK gents, thanks for the responses. The seller answered, and stated "We found a reference of it in Barry Stein's The US Army Patch Book, page 78A Plate 78 Identified as 173d Abn. BDE. HHC #1 The second type has a white border around it." I don't know what edition of Stein's book he has, however.

 

Does anyone have Stein's book handy?

Yes, just as you say. Barry does have that flash listed as a "type 1".

But, for many years the 4 Roses Drinking Club patch was pawned off as a AAA unit also.

I have in years past shared a table (and many Martini's) with Barry at the ASMIC Convention and he will be the first to admit that there are a few "misnomer's" in some of his books. However, Barry's book is a very good reference overall.

The other thing to keep in mind is that when the "2nd generation" 173rd was reactivated there may well have been some Troops who created flashes from 17th Cav flashes as an expedient till the whited bordered versions found their way to the unit. I just have never talked with anyone from the unit who can verify that.

So for me the design remains the 128th QM Co (Rigger)

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Maybe its just my screen or the flash from camera but the color looks more orange than red on the beret flash.

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The other thing to keep in mind is that when the "2nd generation" 173rd was reactivated there may well have been some Troops who created flashes from 17th Cav flashes as an expedient till the whited bordered versions found their way to the unit. I just have never talked with anyone from the unit who can verify that.

So for me the design remains the 128th QM Co (Rigger)

 

But the 17th Cav flash is red over white; it would be easier to to merely color in the bottom (white) portion blue. Are you certain the 128th QM isn't red over blue?

 

Doyler: yes, that's the other thing; it's slightly more orange in the photo, but...still clearly reddish-orange. It seems that the 173rd flashes and ovals are red.

 

By the way, this flash is glued on, but that's not unheard of.

 

 

 

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Here's the 76th Infantry Det (Pathfinder) of the California National Guard (this apparently was from the 60s-70s; if so, it would likely have been on a black beret):

 

post-257-0-43484400-1462921896.jpg

 

 

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But the 17th Cav flash is red over white; it would be easier to to merely color in the bottom (white) portion blue. Are you certain the 128th QM isn't red over blue?

 

Doyler: yes, that's the other thing; it's slightly more orange in the photo, but...still clearly reddish-orange. It seems that the 173rd flashes and ovals are red.

 

By the way, this flash is glued on, but that's not unheard of.

 

 

 

Yes, type Ia was red over blue, felt versions, type 1b were first blue over red then fe type 1c versions were also blue over red.

Just as a side not the 128th ended up wearing the QM School F & O.

The thing about flashes is to "never say never", that is what makes them so much fun to collect.

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Were black berets for Pathfinder Detachments ever really a big thing?

Not, really. Pathfinders take great pride in their Black Ball Caps. When they did / do wear the Beret it is the maroon one.

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To further "muddy the waters", the current 173rd HQ F & O design (blue over red with white border) was worn very briefly by the 128th prior to going to the QM School F & O.

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Not, really. Pathfinders take great pride in their Black Ball Caps. When they did / do wear the Beret it is the maroon one.

That's what I thought. I was curious why the assertion was being made here that pathfinders used black berets, as I've never heard that before.

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Here's the 76th Infantry Det (Pathfinder) of the California National Guard (this apparently was from the 60s-70s; if so, it would likely have been on a black beret):

 

attachicon.gifberet-flash-76th-inf-det-pfdr-airborne_1_98d725e14a780b8a5a962094a410b80b.jpg

 

 

According to Bill Hudspeath's book, this flash was worn in the late 70's - early 80's at which time the unit switched to wearing the 3rd SF Grp flash as an expedient.

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According to Bill Hudspeath's book, this flash was worn in the late 70's - early 80's at which time the unit switched to wearing the 3rd SF Grp flash as an expedient.

 

My copy says "probably worn in the late 70s"; it also states the orange is above. So I guess the 76th Inf Det reversed colors at one point. That is, if the example is legit.

 

As to the black berets - what I meant is that the combination of that flash and a black beret would have pointed to the late 60's or early 70s, if it isn't humped up.

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  • 7 months later...

 

it also states the orange is above.

 

 

 

Disregard - I had mis-read that. Blue is indeed above, as shown in the link.

 

Also, I wanted to post this flash from another site - it was listed in the "unknown" category:

 

post-257-0-30166400-1482902354.jpg

 

 

 

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