WWII Era Dutch Lanyards; What is Original?

[Hermanus]

The 1982 Decree.

[Hermanus]

 

The phrase in the picture of posting 21 mentioning: "the award of the MWO entitles all members to the wearing of the orange lanyard" is NOT true. Both awards have nothing to do with each other as I stipulated above.

 

Herman

[Kadet]

Thank you. As a point of reference, the example with a clip I posted is 3mm in thickness. The thicker versions without clips are 5mm in thickness. I have also seen lanyards with a different, heavier brass clip and thicker cord. I think it unreasonable to assume that every member of the 82nd Airborne Division that was on occupation duty in Germany received an actual Dutch lanyard. Some photos exist of the lanyard being worn by 82nd honor guard personnel in Germany, and it was in common use during the 82nd homecoming parade in 1946. Many of the lanyards worn by division personnel were probably home made, or perhaps procured privately or at the unit level in Germany or the US. The version I posted with the silver ferrule is on a jacket named to a member of the 82nd HQ, and I have seen at least one identical example also named to a HQ trooper.

[Kadet]

Also, I believe the 101st gave authorization for both the Belgian fourragere and Dutch lanyard in GO 218 dated 30 November 1945

[doyler]

Andy

 

I agree with your assessment as the vet I mentioned was with th 17th Airborne both glider and parachute qualified and wounded during Varsity.He served during the Bulge as well.He was then with the 325th /82nd during occupation and discharged sometime in late 1945 or 46.

 

In his insignias and other items I recieved there was an orange cord and white boot laces.The boot laces are para cord.He said the scarf and boot laces were worn on guard duty or honor guard duty and ceremonial functions.He never fought during Market Garden and would have had to get the orange cord while assigned to the 82nd during the occupation.

 

I do know he attended reunions but he didnt even recall when or where he got the cord and really didnt know its exact significance.Also the items I recieved were found when they cleaned out the farm house prior to moving into a apartment here in town.He said he hadnt realized he still had these things as he hadnt seen them since the end of the war.I will have to see what type cord it is as I dont recall if it has the clip closure or nust the loop.From his story I dont see him getting something in the 80s or 90s.Everything was packed in an old cardboard box along with a cartridge belt, army blanket, german binoculars, etc.Most all of his other german items were sold to an area dealer 35 + years ago.I even have his "commando" knife he traded for.Its actually a original Marine Raider knife.When I asked him how he got it he said in England he traded for it from a Polish paratrooper as they were stationed together or in the training area same area.I have shown it to a couple local blade collectors and they say no way he got it in england.I know some Canadian paras were issued the Raider stilettos maybe it filtered down through them? Plus this vet wasnt a collector and farmed here all of his life and traveled very little.I asked if his brother had served in WW2 and he did but was in the 79th division.I have known him since the mid 70s and have no reason not to believe him.

[Kadet]

Thanks, it would be very helpful if you could find the lanyard and post a picture. If the vet participated in the 82nd homecoming parade in 1946, the lanyard probably dates from this event, or perhaps from occupation duty. In pictures of the parade, all of the troopers are wearing the lanyard regardless of whether the served in Operation Market or not. I make this assessment based on the 13th Airborne combat patches visible on some of the uniforms.

[Kadet]

Here is some additional info that may be of interest. This is the discharge document for the man who owned the uniform in post #3. He was in the 508th PIR, and returned to the US in early December 1945. He was discharged on 25 December 1945 as a WO. This document is dated 7 Jan 1946 and clearly lists both the Belgian Fourragere and "Dutch Order of William" in his awards. I assume the orange lanyard represents the Order of William, although this is erroneous as Herman points out. There was clearly confusion about these foreign awards! The uniform has the fancier fourragere w/ the extra loops (not pictured) and a lanyard clearly made from dyed para cord. This discharge omits his Bronze Star, but other separation documents in the group list it.

[gliderman1]

Herman, thanks for all your research.

 

Everyone, I am still confused.

 

1. This discussion seems to illustrate to me that a lot of US Airborne "made" and wore their own Orange Lanyards, one might say, because "everyone" at the time (1945-46) was wearing the OL.

2. As for checking original or modern cord, the original were to be cotton per the Dutch gov. All US procured parachutes after January 1943 (per Wright Field) were nylon. That is, not silk and cotton. that does not mean ther were no silk/cotton parachutes 1944-45, it means a lot of them were not silk/cottton. Giving the end of the cord the burn test, dyed cotton cord would burn/smolder whereas nylon would melt.

3. I was told several years ago that the OL was the highest award given by the Queen to the individual soldier. This of course does not coincide with the creation of the OL to identify Dutch officers in Brit uniforms or with the fact that the OL was cancelled in 1947?

4. There was/is a lot of misunderstanding surrounding the OL which you are doing a good job of correcting!

 

CDay

[Hermanus]

Gliderman1 and others.

 

The OL wasn't created as an award at all, it was originally intended as a distinction between Dutch Army Officers, WO's and OA.

 

But........

 

In 1945 my government was so excited about the efforts and losses of the US Airborne during Market Garden that they decided to award the MWO4 to the colours of the 82nd Airborne Division. Furthermore numerous MWO4, Bronze Lions, Bronze Crosses and Crosses of Merit (Bronzen Leeuw, Bronzen Kruis and Kruis van Verdienste) were awarded to single paratroopers in 1945 and 1946. 5 awards in the Order of Oranje Nassau were also bestowed. All these awards were awarded by Royal Decree.

 

In this mood of appreciation the Dutch Minister of War decided to award the OL to all personell of both Airborne Divisions by his own (Ministral) Decree. Perhaps some Dutch told the US of a connection with the MWO to give the impression of an important award. I'm just guessing.

 

I believe that the OLs in stock in 1945 were not sufficiënt to award around 25 to 30,000 of them. Perhaps the Dutch Army of early 1945 consistent of a few thousand officers and the figures in stock were sufficient for this number. I don't know If a new order was given to the manufacturer. Perhaps this explains the home made OLs. I think the home made OLs are also the real deal. It gives me the impression that this award was well received with in the Airborne community.

 

The simple fact that OLs were issued to the US Airborne gave this lanyard a new and higher distinction. Nowadays the wearing of the OL by all Dutch officers is almost forgotten. If I see an OL I think 'para' and not 'officer in WW2'. The fact that the OL was terminated in 1947 made this lanyard exclusive for the US paratroopers. No Dutch soldier was allowed to wear it any more, it was entirely reserved for the US paratroopers.

 

The para's from the UK and Poland who were involved in Ops. MARKET GARDEN were not forgotten as well. They received individual bravery decorations and in 2005 the Polish Parachutist Brigade also received a MWO4 to their colours. They never got the OL.

 

Questions. An orange ribbon bar exist as well in the US. Is this representing the award of the OL?

 

Till today my country still is gratefull to their liberators. All the old veterans who visit my country still receive a heroes welcome.

 

Regards

Herman

[gliderman1]

"Questions. An orange ribbon bar exist as well in the US. Is this representing the award of the OL?"

 

Herman,

I am not aware of a WWII orange ribbon bar representing orange lanyard, especially related to US glider pilot.

 

Would seem to me that the physical nature of the Orange Lanyard and the way it is worn, as opposed to the required display space for medals dangling from ribbons, would not necessitate using a ribbon bar to represent the OL.

 

C Day

[Hermanus]

"Questions. An orange ribbon bar exist as well in the US. Is this representing the award of the OL?"

 

Herman,

I am not aware of a WWII orange ribbon bar representing orange lanyard, especially related to US glider pilot.

 

Would seem to me that the physical nature of the Orange Lanyard and the way it is worn, as opposed to the required display space for medals dangling from ribbons, would not necessitate using a ribbon bar to represent the OL.

 

C Day

Thanks very much.

[Kadet]

This has been a good discussion! My own conclusion is that the lanyard style with a clip shown above is a post war US made item that was sent to veterans who requested replacement awards from the Army. They would have been used in relatively large numbers starting in the late 1940s as airborne vets requested their CIB bronze stars, and would also have been available to active duty personnel that rated them starting at the same time. Many airborne vets have the lanyard noted in their awards, and the common practice was for pqmd to send a complete replacement set. The first and "original" lanyards were not official items, notwithstanding the probably very small number of actual Dutch lanyards awarded.

[Timberwolf]

Here are three of my examples of uniforms with Dutch Orange Lanyards on them:

 

1st off is to an unknown member of the 101st/82nd AB (jump oval is 307th AEB, and obviously went to the 82nd's 326th for occupation)

 

It has a rather unique style of attachment, not sure if this is theater made or not?

[Timberwolf]

2nd is a ike with lanyard to a member of the 325th GIR, obtained direct from the niece:

[Timberwolf]

Finally a member of the 325th GIR who was former in the 101st (unknown unit) who was jump trained:

 

[Kadet]

Thank you for posting these! The second two are just like the 82nd "thick/clip less"versions I posted above and are typical 1945/early 46 82nd Airborne examples IMO. The first one has the heavier clip that I mentioned above...perhaps this is an actual the Dutch version? Its interesting to compare your former 101st version with the heavy clip to the one on my 101st jacket. They look the same, having a basket weave type pattern on the loop ends and being slightly thinner than the others (although not at thin as the ones with the small brass clip). Mine looks to have been cut and resewn on the end that attaches to the button. Perhaps the heavy clip was removed? This lanyard is sewn to the jacket and has been on it since '45/'46 IMO.

[Timberwolf]

Glad I could add to the discussion Andy! I definitely thought the first Ike I posted had a similar clip attachment but of a different size than yours. This guy definitely did occupation as he has a WWI occupation ribbon (must have gotten it early as the WWII version was still not commonly found) so the 45/46 time frame definitely make sense. I obtained the 325th Glider rider straight from the niece as that uncle had left his stuff at her grandma's house. The other two were obtained from a collector I know that got them straight from the vet (in the case of the 307th AEB) and and son (325th para guy) so no doubt that these examples are late WWII/ early occupation era.

[Old Marine]

I don't know if these will help with the discussion but here are 2 of the 70s - 80s reissue types that Ron spoke about. These won't shed any light on identifying original lanyards but at least we will be able to identify the very late post war replacement lanyards.

[Old Marine]

The clips look the same but thicker cord and darker color on the 83 made one.

[Old Marine]

Another detail view.

[Hermanus]

The Hillborn Hamburger one doesn't even Come close to the original Dutch design.

[Kadet]

Thank you very much for posting these, as they help establish a timeline. Although the 70s/80s versions look like the clip version I posted at first glance, they have many differences in detail. The material looks synthetic. The clips, although similar in shape, look much cheaper and the knotting on the loops is significantly different. Judging from this info, I would say the clip version I posted is much earlier than these...it would be great to see an actual WWII-era Dutch version of the lanyard!

[doyler]

Posted this a while back.No clip.

 

[Kadet]

Thanks Ron, it looks like the 82nd thick clipless lanyards I posted. Can you post a closeup of the loop?

[Hermanus]

Found this one today. Dutch made in WW2.