Jump to content

CW MG Frock Coat question


Recommended Posts

Brian Keith

I’m preparing an exhibit that will include this CW frock coat (of MG Robert Huston Milroy) we are borrowing from the library that owns it. The sword belt and sash are on it but I’m guessing the sash may be attached incorrectly. Could someone direct me on how it was properly worn? Both sash and belt are in good condition. Also, there are different colors to the sashes and I’m wondering what the colors indicate.

Thanks for any assistance.

BKW

 

post-1549-0-96206400-1462548209.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Keith

Not at the Museum of the Soldier, at the Ft. Wayne Museum of Art to go with the Lawrie paintings show. We have his M-1860 sword and an fantastic presentation sword of MG Milroy to exhibit also.

Thanks for the link.

BKW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve Rogers

The sash was to, "go twice aournd the waist, and to tie behind the left hip, pendant part not to extend more than 18 inches below the tie." (1861 Regs.) General officers were to wear buff colored sashes, but in practice these sometimes verged into gold. All other officers, regardless of branch, wore crimson colored sashes with the exception of the medical depart and medical staff, who wore green. Sashes for officers were to be silk. Sashes for First Sergeants, NCO staff and the like were to be red worsted wool. Officers assigned to act as Officer of the Day were to wear the sash over the right shoulder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Keith

Thanks Steve! Excellent!

KirtA, after your question, I bounced around a bit on the internet it sees to be confusing. But, this is one very beautiful buckle, I doubt this quality was issued to enlisted men. Thanks for your comments, I hope people with CW knowledge add their info.

BKW

post-1549-0-99210300-1462558799.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Keith

He does have two sword belts and buckles, here is a snap of the one i didn't borrow.

BKWpost-1549-0-70110700-1462558976.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Generals could, after all, wear whatever they wanted. Perhaps this general figured the silver and gold buckle better matched the silver and gold belt.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did a little searching around the internet. Found another belt like this for a general officer. So, apparently, the silver wreath is not just EM. (guess I learned something new) However, it appears an EM buckle would not be gilt/gold plated like the one pictured, it would be a plain brass finish.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I hope you show us the Milroy presentation sword. I'm guessing it is the one we see glimpses of in the display case with the general's uniform. The uniform is spectacular. It seems you're going to have one heck of an exhibit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Keith

Hello Sundance,

We are borrowing the sword you see in the photo also, but that one is the regular M-1860's, the presentation sword is exquisite and I'll make a post about it later. I'm considering getting it evaluated by a jeweler to see what the various gem stones on it are. It appears his initials are in diamonds! Thanks for your interest.

BKW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Steve Rogers

The sword belt on the mannequin and the one pictured in the case are both the regulation CW belt for general officers. These show up, as yours do, with actual bullion woven into them in three rows or sometimes with the rows gilt stamped into the leather (some feel that is a late war or postwar development- I don't know what the evidence is for that.) The leather was originally red, but the color on these usually shifts to the brown you are seeing and the gilt bullion often shifts to the silver ("zinced out" in collector slang.)

The belt plate is the regulation 1851 pattern sword belt plate. You are right: the quality marks it as an officer's plate, or to be more precise, as a high grade commercial plate most likely to be purchased by an officer. The same pattern plate was regulation for all sword belts, so it is also the regulation plate for all cavalrymen and for light artlllerymen armed with a saber, as well as the regulation plate for non-commissioned officers of the different branches: infantry sergeants, members of the regimental NCO staff- quartermaster sergeants, sergeant majors, etc. The key is that those plates were issued to them by the government and those plates are of lower quality, particularly in the die strikes. They followed the same general pattern of a gilt brass plate featuring the eagle surrounded by a silver wreath. But, instead of a real silver wash on the wreath, a separate nickel silver ("German silver") wreath was sweated on the plate. Since the silver wash tends wear off, but the nickel silver wreaths more often stay on and retain their brightness, people mistake them for officer's plates since they now seem more glitzy.

This does not mean that an NCO, particularly a member of the NCO staff, might not purchase himself a fancier belt rig that has a nice quality plate, or that an officer, particularly for field wear, might not adopt an enlisted saber belt and plate (General Richardson seems to have done this and Francis Barlow seems to have copied him- I expect there were others.) The short version is that the belts and plates you show are straight regulation.

I also note that the color of the sash in the case seems to be the regulation buff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Keith

Thanks so much for your great explanation of the belts, buckles and sash! I do appreciate the clarification of the buckles. This forum is great because of contributions like yours! I hope you enjoyed seeing these things.

BKW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
Brian Keith

Here is how it turned out. I put it on a better mannequin and wrapped the sash as per the instructions I got here. How does it look to you "civil war" guys?

 

post-1549-0-93324500-1464962540.jpg

 

Thanks!

BKW

This show opens tomorrow.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Spathologist

Not an expert, but period images show the sash folded so that it's not a lot wider than the belt, and with the belt worn over the tails...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brian Keith

I thought it looked a bit wide, but the info I got didn't mention folding it. The reg that was linked did say one end went over the belt. Thanks for the info.

BKW

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...