World War I Tiffany Cross Engravings

[FFZFlyer]

Not much doubt that the TC is the most intriguing of all MoH designs. No one seems to definitively know how many were actually presented and to whom. Someday, someday.

 

In the meantime, with the publication of Talbott's TC engraving, I thought it might be interesting to look at the engravings of a couple of other WWI engravings. Some have probably been seen before, some not.

 

First, is John Kelly's:

 

 

I'll also post his SS and his 1904 Army piece.

 

 

 

 

[FFZFlyer]

Here's Kelly's SS:

 

Obverse:

 

 

and reverse:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FFZFlyer]

And here's Kelly's 1904 Army alongside his TC:

 

 

The reverse of the 1904 Army is blank, as issued.

 

To the best of my knowledge these medals remain in the family.

 

 

[FFZFlyer]

Here's John Pruitt's TC engraving:

 

 

and his 1904 Army engraving:

 

 

To the best of my knowledge these medals still call a Phoenix museum home.

 

 

 

 

[FFZFlyer]

This is Guy Robinson's TC engraving:

 

 

And Talbott's (Thanks for photo permission Moderator Dave and the USMC Museum):

 

 

 

The format is identical for all 4 pieces: Rank and Full Name

United States Marine Corps

Place of Action

Date of Action

 

To my unpracticed eye, it appears that Kelly's and Pruitt's engravings were done by the same hand while Talbott's and Robinson's were a different engraver. Particularly on Talbott's and Robinson's the "R" is cut differently than on Kelly's and Pruitt's. The last "S" in "Corps" on Talbott's appears to have a little extra tail.

 

Note, too, that all four are the Type I TC with the attachment lug on the top arm.

 

I do not know the present whereabouts of Robinson's TC. I lost track of it a few years ago.

 

Hope you enjoy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bobgee]

Great stuff! Thanks for sharing. Semper Fi.......Bobgee

[Dave]

Pruitt's medals are at the National Marine Corps Museum. I photographed them. Very nice pair of medals!

[katieony]

Great images...thank you for sharing!

Mike

[LuftStalg1]

Wow, look like some pre digital camera vintage photos there. Thanks for posting these! All of these TC's with the lug/finger suspension seem to have the same warm frosty reverse of solid gold.

[FFZFlyer]

Pruitt's medals are at the National Marine Corps Museum. I photographed them. Very nice pair of medals!

Frankly, that surprises me due to the close association of Pruitt with Arizona. Any idea of when the transfer happened and how it happened.

 

Thanks again for letting me use Talbott's image. It was a great contribution to the discussion.

[FFZFlyer]

Wow, look like some pre digital camera vintage photos there. Thanks for posting these! All of these TC's with the lug/finger suspension seem to have the same warm frosty reverse of solid gold.

When these were taken "digital" referred to something to do with fingers. Can you say Kodachrome and Ektachrome? Shooting film did involve some risk. In retrospect I do wish modern digital photographic methods had been available.

[LuftStalg1]

When these were taken "digital" referred to something to do with fingers. Can you say Kodachrome and Ektachrome? Shooting film did involve some risk. In retrospect I do wish modern digital photographic methods had been available.

Ah the good old days. I still have boxes full of old photos I someday planned to scan into digital so I don't have to drag them around for the rest of my life.

[emccomas]

Frankly, that surprises me due to the close association of Pruitt with Arizona. Any idea of when the transfer happened and how it happened.

 

Thanks again for letting me use Talbott's image. It was a great contribution to the discussion.

 

I recall an article in the Marine Corps magazine about the family of Pruitt donating his medals to the Museum of the Marine Corps.

 

Here is a link that describes that donation.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjDwMLO0LzMAhWIax4KHdjgBwkQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arlingtoncemetery.net%2Fjhpruitt.htm&usg=AFQjCNHiOBjIKDxwLNNPvO0rQhfgVTksaw&sig2=rkBgFtOjCXUQa45wR8WHRQ

[12A54]

Pruitt's in post #4 appears to be on a neck ribbon. Have never seen that before. Does anyone (Dave?) have a full photo of this?

[Dave]

Pruitt's in post #4 appears to be on a neck ribbon. Have never seen that before. Does anyone (Dave?) have a full photo of this?

 

 

Pruitt's is now on a standard TC style ribbon. His Army MOH is without cravat. I wonder when the change happened?

[FFZFlyer]

 

I recall an article in the Marine Corps magazine about the family of Pruitt donating his medals to the Museum of the Marine Corps.

 

Here is a link that describes that donation.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjDwMLO0LzMAhWIax4KHdjgBwkQFggoMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arlingtoncemetery.net%2Fjhpruitt.htm&usg=AFQjCNHiOBjIKDxwLNNPvO0rQhfgVTksaw&sig2=rkBgFtOjCXUQa45wR8WHRQ

 

Thanks for the link. Somehow I missed that. Glad the transfer happened as the museum that had the pieces rarely displayed them and just kept them on a shelf in the back room. The family did the right thing.

[12A54]

 

 

Pruitt's is now on a standard TC style ribbon. His Army MOH is without cravat. I wonder when the change happened?

 

So do you think it was on a standard TC suspension, converted to a neck ribbon, then back to standard?

[Dave]

 

So do you think it was on a standard TC suspension, converted to a neck ribbon, then back to standard?

 

Yes...probably during WW2, would be my guess, given the look of the cravat in the black and white photo earlier in the thread.

[FFZFlyer]

Please compare these WWI TC engraving formats to Schilt's shown in an earlier post by Moderator Dave. Schilt's has 5 lines of engraving:

 

FIRST LIEUTENANT CHRISTIAN F. SCHILT

U.S.M.C.

FOR EXTRAORDINARY HEROISM

NICARAGUA

1928

 

Interesting to see how the format changed in just 8-9 years (I have not been able to determine the exact date of presentation; on-line photos show Schilt and Coolidge but all give the date as "c. 1928." Schilt returned from Nicaragua in 1929 (exact date not known) so don't know if he made a special trip back to the States for the presentation that year or if he came back for the presentation before Coolidge left office in March 1929). This format has the abbreviation for USMC, an added line stating the reason for the award, the country only where the action took place, and just the year the medal was earned.

[emccomas]

Please compare these WWI TC engraving formats to Schilt's shown in an earlier post by Moderator Dave. Schilt's has 5 lines of engraving:

 

FIRST LIEUTENANT CHRISTIAN F. SCHILT

U.S.M.C.

FOR EXTRAORDINARY HEROISM

NICARAGUA

1928

 

Interesting to see how the format changed in just 8-9 years (I have not been able to determine the exact date of presentation; on-line photos show Schilt and Coolidge but all give the date as "c. 1928." Schilt returned from Nicaragua in 1929 (exact date not known) so don't know if he made a special trip back to the States for the presentation that year or if he came back for the presentation before Coolidge left office in March 1929). This format has the abbreviation for USMC, an added line stating the reason for the award, the country only where the action took place, and just the year the medal was earned.

 

The presentation of the Medal of Honor to LT C. Frank Schilt was on 9 June, 1928, according to this excerpt from the Bureau of Aeronautics Newsletter, dated June 13, 1928.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=15&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiX-PzukMPMAhWC2T4KHWKbALEQFghhMA4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdmairfield.com%2Fpeople%2Fschilt_cf%2Findex.html&usg=AFQjCNFZWv5zfpdXsTh-M9R-UPCI8anl1g&sig2=FquT7fR63fXkv9cvV8fd3w

 

I was also interested to note the Schilt later adopted the practice of wearing his Medal of Honor ribbon ABOVE his aviator wings, which is not in accordance with Navy regulations. He stated that nothing should be above the Medal of Honor.

[ccyooper]

I have been following the why not Tiffany Cross thread on the forum and even though this is an older thread I have a question regarding Robert G Bobby Robinsons TC. Does anyone have a current picture of it? I helped a gentleman from Belgium write a self published book on Talbot/Robinson this year and would like to upgrade the picture of the medal. I was told that it was at the USMC museum but when I had a friend from CMH query them during a visit he came up empty. Lt Robinson was a friend of my dad and I knew him while growing up. He died while I was in HS. Jon Bozich told me that the USMC immediately claimed the medal after his death. Any assistance is appreciated. Regards CC

[emccomas]

I have been following the why not Tiffany Cross thread on the forum and even though this is an older thread I have a question regarding Robert G Bobby Robinsons TC. Does anyone have a current picture of it? I helped a gentleman from Belgium write a self published book on Talbot/Robinson this year and would like to upgrade the picture of the medal. I was told that it was at the USMC museum but when I had a friend from CMH query them during a visit he came up empty. Lt Robinson was a friend of my dad and I knew him while growing up. He died while I was in HS. Jon Bozich told me that the USMC immediately claimed the medal after his death. Any assistance is appreciated. Regards CC

 

My information is that the Robinson medal was last known to be in the National Museum of the Marine Corps.

 

I would recommend that you contact them directly and see what they say.

[ccyooper]

Sorry for the delay, thank you. Regards

[manayunkman]

Can you own a Tiffany Cross?

[emccomas]

Can you own a Tiffany Cross?

 

Not if you live in the United States.

 

I suppose that US citizens living overseas could probably get away with it, but it is still probably illegal.

 

A Tiffany Cross is STILL a Medal of Honor, and the rules / laws apply.