WWI PH Large Thumbnail cluster Reproduction or Variant?

[tarbridge]

In Sydney Vernon's "Collector Guide to Orders Medals and Decorations" ; on page 470 he gives year 2000 prices for Purple Hearts. He writes "World War One award-named and attributed with large oak leaf cluster (beware of fakes) $275. Then under Silver Stars he writes "Numerous fakes of the original large oak leaf cluster are being manufactured. The collector should exercise EXTREME caution". OK, he didn't capitalize "extreme", I did that for John. The point being is that Vernon only identifies a handful of pieces where copies exist. In no other area does he issue such a strong warning for collectors to exercise extreme caution with the existence of fakes. That is all I am saying about the OLC in question. I'll try and post my large OCL soon.

I have no doubt there can be reproductions out but was hoping there is something published containing images.

[Hermanus]

Here is a large OLC I own. It is clearly a modern copy like the one LuftStalg1 showed in post #10.

 

It has a silverish wash which doesn't get darker in time. Furthermore it is a bit rough.

 

Regards

Herman

[LuftStalg1]

Here is a large OLC I own. It is clearly a modern copy like the one LuftStalg1 showed in post #10.

 

It has a silverish wash which doesn't get darker in time. Furthermore it is a bit rough.

 

Regards

Herman

Herman,

 

Yours actually looks like a cast copy of an original. It would be slightly smaller, due to shrinkage, caused by the process. Soft details but basically the same design and not as narrow as the one in question. The one I own, that have not found, is a modern die struck copy. Still looking through boxes for it!

[tarbridge]

Here is a large OLC I own. It is clearly a modern copy like the one LuftStalg1 showed in post #10.

 

It has a silverish wash which doesn't get darker in time. Furthermore it is a bit rough.

 

Regards

Herman

Thanks Herman...a clearly known reproduction. ..with the image.

[scottplen]

I wonder if the fakers are smart enough or would even care to pull the cards and put the OLC on actual WIA 2x purple hearts ? i would think the fact that your guy's card show he was awarded OLC ? but just from reseach aspect the OLC checks out.

[LuftStalg1]

Found it! This is a modern copy I bought on ebay maybe 5 years back before I found my original. I used it for a display with my Rickenbacker oakleaf sprig. It is about 22.5 mm by 12.5 mm. It has the brushed copper finish in hand, though not that clear in phone photos. The two pins on the back are flat but so narrow they almost seem round. Up close it has next to no detail but at arm's length it looks pretty good. I tried to photograph it next to my good one as best I could without messing with my good one. This fake is just as I bought it and I have not worked it to make it more realistic for display as I had with some of my Rickenbacker sprig's. It is overall slightly smaller but most notable to me is the more narrow leaf and blunted end of the stem.

 

[LuftStalg1]

Another shot.

 

Seems the same basic style as the one in question but the detail on this one is not as nice. And you can see that it originally had a grove for the center vein for the leaf and they went back and added a raised vein in the center but did not take it all the way to the end and it drifts off center a bit as well. I don't know, without really good close photos of the one in question I would not say at this point. But I am leaning towards a possible variation with the support of the PH deserving of the device.

[Hermanus]

@LuftStalg1. Mine says STERLING on the reverse. And yours?

[LuftStalg1]

@LuftStalg1. Mine says STERLING on the reverse. And yours?

Mine has nothing on it. It is just sheet copper or something else stamped out. The person that fakes a lot of wings, whose name is not mentioned here, uses sterling almost exclusively. Sterling is easy to use in casting (lost wax method) so it is the most commonly found in castings. Lead is really easy but not good for your health so Pewter has taken the place of Lead and is typically used in the least expensive of castings.

[LuftStalg1]

@LuftStalg1. Mine says STERLING on the reverse. And yours?

What are the measurements on yours?

[dhcoleterracina]

There is a second book by Richard Bruhn and Andrew Lipps titled "Pre WW2 Purple Hearts". They don't address fakes but say...

 

"Duplicate awards were indicated on the Purple Heart Medals by attaching an Oak Leaf Cluster. One for each additional wound. The 15/16 th inch OLC which was specified in 1921 was used on the early issues of the Purple Heart. This large size OLC had the same gilt finish as the pendant of the Purple Heart Medal. These were used throughout 1932 and 1933 up to the beginning of the American Emblem Contract. On September 3rd 1932 a War Department Circular reduced the size of the oak leaf cluster to 13/32 of an inch. The first observed use of this cluster is on PH #41222 authorized on the 20th of November 1933."

 

I couldn't find anything specific to this discussion in Call of Duty or in the Gleim Medal Letters. Bruhn/Lipps comment that the large OLC should be of the same gilt finish as the pendant. My large OLC, and the subject cluster, shows no sign of having a gilt finish and it's hard to believe that a second manufacturer wouldn't have been given an instruction on a gilt finish. Kcmo's cluster is certainly in the number range where you would expect it to have been issued with the large OLC.

[LuftStalg1]

Andrew (Wartimecollectibles) is a forum member and would be the person to ask about this source material. I just shot him a note and asked him to take a look at this thread.

[Hermanus]

What are the measurements on yours?

You're right. It's a cast copy. I measured it and it's 22 mm by 13,1 mm.

 

I think smaller than an original.?!

[wartimecollectables.com]

There is a second book by Richard Bruhn and Andrew Lipps titled "Pre WW2 Purple Hearts". They don't address fakes but say...

 

"Duplicate awards were indicated on the Purple Heart Medals by attaching an Oak Leaf Cluster. One for each additional wound. The 15/16 th inch OLC which was specified in 1921 was used on the early issues of the Purple Heart. This large size OLC had the same gilt finish as the pendant of the Purple Heart Medal. These were used throughout 1932 and 1933 up to the beginning of the American Emblem Contract. On September 3rd 1932 a War Department Circular reduced the size of the oak leaf cluster to 13/32 of an inch. The first observed use of this cluster is on PH #41222 authorized on the 20th of November 1933."

 

I couldn't find anything specific to this discussion in Call of Duty or in the Gleim Medal Letters. Bruhn/Lipps comment that the large OLC should be of the same gilt finish as the pendant. My large OLC, and the subject cluster, shows no sign of having a gilt finish and it's hard to believe that a second manufacturer wouldn't have been given an instruction on a gilt finish. Kcmo's cluster is certainly in the number range where you would expect it to have been issued with the large OLC.

 

I must admit to great pleasure in seeing our pre-WWII Purple Heart book referenced here. Richard Bruhn's work needs remembering! I was very much the junior contributor, most of the text and detail were Dick's work. We intended an update however Dick died before that could come to fruition and he had the original reference material.

My "2 cents worth" input is worth about exactly that! I have never seen a thumbnail OLC like the one in question and they were produced so briefly that I would not assume there was a second production run of any kind. The 'gilt finish' detail noted above is correct per Gov't. specifications. I am unaware of Studley making or contracting large OLC's either.

 

[bobgee]

Chiming in on this most interesting subject. I have the OMSA Journal of July 1992 at hand, which contains the late Col. Todd Wheatley's article on the Oak Leaf Cluster. From it, we can determine that the first bronze oak leaf signifying additional award of the DSC and DSM were available in April 1918 for shipment to the AEF. A quantity of 100 is mentioned. This first OLC, which I refer to as the "marijuana leaf" olc was not well received. Thus an immediate project of redesign of the insignia commenced. By February 1919 a redesigned OLC was underway and by March the new larger OLC was approved. Also noted in correspondence of the time is the "necessity of securing an absolute match between the metal used for the above insignia and the medal to be hanging underneath. In order to make the color of the oak leaf and the medal match the alloys used in each will have to be identical."

AR 600-35 dated October 14, 1921, Paragraph 22, described the Oak Leaf Cluster as "a bronze twig of four oak leaves with three acorns on the stem 15/16 of an inch in length, to be worn on the ribbon suspending the medal" Wheatley notes in his article that "Successor regulations dated November 25, 1924 and December 31, 1926 described the device in the same manner."

I think we need to keep in mind that only the DSC and DSM existed at this time that could require an Oak Leaf Cluster. This raises the question: How many 15/16th size OLCs were produced by the Mint? With a minimum need for the device it would seem that not that many would have been minted.

 

In February 1932 when the Purple Heart medal was approved and the Silver Star medal following, the dynamics of OLC quantity requirements changed immensely. On September 3, 1932 War Dept Circular 46 announced the reduction in size of the Oak Leaf Cluster. Change 2 of August 22, 1933 to AR 600-35 (of December 31, 1926) revised Paragraph 26 to define the oak leaf cluster as a "bronze twig of 4 oak leaves with 3 acorns on the stem, 13/32 of an inch in length, to be worn on the ribbon suspending the medal."

 

So, from 1921 through 1932 how many of the 15/16th inch OLCs were produced? Can we guess----100?, 200? 500? I haven't found that number but I think it relatively small in number. As production and issuance of Silver Star and Purple Heart medals ensued, my guess is that the old stock of the large OLCs were used first.

I have a Purple Heart with large 15/16th inch OLC awarded on 5 August 1932 and another awarded on 20 January 1933. I also have a Silver Star with a 13/32nd size olc awarded on 15 September 1933 and another awarded on 2 March 1934. So, were the large OLCs expended at some point in 1932?

 

I don't believe there were multiple contracts awarded for the production of the 15/16th size OLC. My gut feeling about the OLC which started this thread is that somebody back down the road found a Purple Heart with a 13/32nd OLC and replaced with a large OLC copy for whatever reason we can just speculate. Just my humble opinion.

Perhaps if some Forum members who have PHs or DSCs or SSMs with large OLCs and have the award cards for them can post the Award dates of those medals we may be able to narrow down or even close the window on when the Mint ran out of the large Oak Leaf Clusters.

Hopefully some Forum members with more knowledge than me will fill in the blanks. My 2-Cents...........Bobgee

[kanemono]

Here is my WW1 Purple Heart with two of the 15/16 inch Oak Leaf Clusters. As you can see it was awarded on April 14, 1932.

Dick

[bobgee]

Great medal, Dick. Thanks......Bob

[tarbridge]

It will take me some time...this I had already posted on the other page...

[LuftStalg1]

Seems like another worthy spreadsheet / list project as we have started with some of the numbered campaign medals. Just need a volunteer to manage it. Great stuff Bob, I need to look that Journal up! Fantastic medal Dick!

[tarbridge]

Sgt Thomas McElhone

K Co 104th Inf Regt

26th Div

WIA...10 April & 20 July 1918

Silver Star...Awarded at Apremont France 10 April 1918 singlehandedly stopped German breakthrough on 10 April 1918

 

Here you go Herman

Silver Star...#3078

Purple Heart...#4155

Mexican Border...#17801 traces to McElhone

 

post-123-0-20373100-1407335196.jpg

[tarbridge]

[tarbridge]

[bobgee]

Thanks, Robert. June & December 1933 awards quickly skews my 1932 theory! Bob

[kcmo]

Here are some close up picks of the OLC in question that started the topic. The award card and number is shown on page 2. Hope these help.

[tarbridge]

 

Corp Charles H Jackson

Co C 1st Gas Regt.

Purple Heart awarded: 7 June 1932

Serial # 7380

WIA 11 July 1918 and 2 Oct 1918