emccomas Posted March 23, 2016 Share #1 Posted March 23, 2016 So I have been thinking (which is usually a dangerous thing).. What would the legal owner (but not the actual recipient) of a Medal of Honor need to do to transport that MOH out of, or in to the United States. Say, for example, that a family member of a deceased recipient, wanted to travel to Europe to show the MOH to distant relatives in other countries. What would that person have to do in order to "legally" travel with an MOH. I would think that it would be prudent to get official permission to do so, particularly so that no problems arise when bringing the medal back into the US. And what is a family member traveled outside the US with the medal, and returned without it. Just wondering.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schofield1943 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #2 Posted March 23, 2016 This is only a guess... but probably go over to Customs before the trip and explain to them the situation and get approval and clearance beforehand with appropriate documentation. A somewhat poor comparison would be when a friend of mine brought her dog overseas internationally. She had to take it to a FDA approved vet to certify it was healthy to travel before Customs cleared it to fly. But once she had the approval she had no problems. edit: I want to stress "appropriate documentation".... I wouldn't leave the country with it without stamped, signed off official US Customs paperwork clearing it for travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFloyd Posted March 23, 2016 Share #3 Posted March 23, 2016 The first paragraph of Section 704, Title 18, US Code: (a)In General.— Whoever knowingly purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt for, manufactures, sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters, or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. I'm not sure I'd request permission to violate a federal law. Jeff Floyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #4 Posted March 23, 2016 Yes, I would make a lot of phone calls and office visits and get written documentation, in multiple, to take with me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuftStalg1 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #5 Posted March 23, 2016 The first paragraph of Section 704, Title 18, US Code: (a)In General.— Whoever knowingly purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt for, manufactures, sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters, or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. I'm not sure I'd request permission to violate a federal law. Jeff Floyd Jeff, this reads to me that it is illegal for ANY U.S. medal or decorations. Am I miss reading this? Wasn't this amended to Congressional medals only? MarkD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted March 23, 2016 Share #6 Posted March 23, 2016 Anyway that it would be tried could end up in a big hassle. Does anyone else remember when BG Joe Foss was stopped by airport security for trying to get on a flight carrying an "object with sharp edges"? The rent a cops running the metal detector tried to confiscate his MOH, saying it could be used as a weapon. None of them knew what the medal was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #7 Posted March 23, 2016 Jeff, this reads to me that it is illegal for ANY U.S. medal or decorations. Am I miss reading this? Wasn't this amended to Congressional medals only? MarkD This is for congressional medals only. Please note that it states " any decoration or medal authorized by Congress ". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schofield1943 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #8 Posted March 23, 2016 The first paragraph of Section 704, Title 18, US Code: (a)In General.— Whoever knowingly purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt for, manufactures, sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters, or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. You have to think there are some kind of exceptions to this. What if the family of a recipient wants to permanently move to Asia or Europe and bring all of their family possessions with them? If it's legally owned, and the movements are legal in nature, I have to think there are lawful ways to move it around, with government approval. But a lawyer would know better than I... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLegGI Posted March 23, 2016 Share #9 Posted March 23, 2016 The first paragraph of Section 704, Title 18, US Code: (a)In General.— Whoever knowingly purchases, attempts to purchase, solicits for purchase, mails, ships, imports, exports, produces blank certificates of receipt for, manufactures, sells, attempts to sell, advertises for sale, trades, barters, or exchanges for anything of value any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces, or the ribbon, button, or rosette of any such badge, decoration or medal, or any colorable imitation thereof, except when authorized under regulations made pursuant to law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. I'm not sure I'd request permission to violate a federal law. Jeff Floyd Looks like 99% of the medal collectors on this forum are going to jail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #10 Posted March 23, 2016 Looks like 99% of the medal collectors on this forum are going to jail. The law says medals awarded by Congress. Are you stating that 99% of the medal collectors on the forum have a Congressional Medal of Honor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLegGI Posted March 23, 2016 Share #11 Posted March 23, 2016 This is for congressional medals only. Please note that it states " any decoration or medal authorized by Congress ". Its actually not only for the MOH. The code actually mentions special penalties for the MOH meaning that the law applies to all medals. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/704 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #12 Posted March 23, 2016 Anyway that it would be tried could end up in a big hassle. Does anyone else remember when BG Joe Foss was stopped by airport security for trying to get on a flight carrying an "object with sharp edges"? The rent a cops running the metal detector tried to confiscate his MOH, saying it could be used as a weapon. None of them knew what the medal was. You have to look at that instance in that day and time not in today's world 14 years later. While it may not have been correct, the date that he tried to fly was Jan 11, 2002. This was 4 months to the day from the Sept 11th attacks. The airlines were being overly cautious and checking all passengers. In addition to his MOH, he was carrying a Medal of Honor commemorative nail file and a dummy bullet which had been made into a key fob. I believe the nail file and dummy bullet raised red flags first. Because of the recent terrorist attacks, he should not have been carrying a nail file and dummy bullet. As I said, everyone was being overly cautious at that time. The good thing is that he was allowed to mail home his nail file and bullet. That was not the case for any other passengers. Today, this would not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sully Posted March 23, 2016 Share #13 Posted March 23, 2016 The law says medals awarded by Congress. Are you stating that 99% of the medal collectors on the forum have a Congressional Medal of Honor? I had a guy come into my shop and get visibly upset by the fact that I have a WW2 Cased Silver Star for sale. He came right up to me at the counter and told me that I couldn't sell that. "That is illegal! You can't sell any of these medals!". I tried to explain to him that the only one I couldn't sell was the MOH. This guy huffed and puffed walked out and then came back a few minutes later to show me the same legal quote as above on his phone. Again I told him that it only pertained to the MOH. Well he threatened to call the state police and that my business would be shut down. Well here we are 5 months later and I'm still open for business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLegGI Posted March 23, 2016 Share #14 Posted March 23, 2016 I had a guy come into my shop and get visibly upset by the fact that I have a WW2 Cased Silver Star for sale. He came right up to me at the counter and told me that I couldn't sell that. "That is illegal! You can't sell any of these medals!". I tried to explain to him that the only one I couldn't sell was the MOH. This guy huffed and puffed walked out and then came back a few minutes later to show me the same legal quote as above on his phone. Again I told him that it only pertained to the MOH. Well he threatened to call the state police and that my business would be shut down. Well here we are 5 months later and I'm still open for business. What the law says and what is enforced are two different things. I honestly have no problem with medals being bought, sold or traded etc. Its always funny though when someone like that comes out of the wood work and gets bent out of shape over it. My buddy who was wounded during ODS always makes me laugh over his purple heart. "Dude I've pawned that thing more times than I can remember. Just a hunk of metal that gets me a few bucks when I need it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #15 Posted March 23, 2016 Its actually not only for the MOH. The code actually mentions special penalties for the MOH meaning that the law applies to all medals. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/704 I will verify with a lawyer but it reads to me that the special penalties for the MOH are for fraudulently representing that you received the MOH. This is an addendum to part B stating that you cannot represent that you received medals that you did not earn not to clarify the first general part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #16 Posted March 23, 2016 I had a guy come into my shop and get visibly upset by the fact that I have a WW2 Cased Silver Star for sale. He came right up to me at the counter and told me that I couldn't sell that. "That is illegal! You can't sell any of these medals!". I tried to explain to him that the only one I couldn't sell was the MOH. This guy huffed and puffed walked out and then came back a few minutes later to show me the same legal quote as above on his phone. Again I told him that it only pertained to the MOH. Well he threatened to call the state police and that my business would be shut down. Well here we are 5 months later and I'm still open for business. This is clearly a case of someone not understanding the law. There are people all over now who have knee jerk reactions rather than trying to understand the laws in our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KASTAUFFER Posted March 23, 2016 Share #17 Posted March 23, 2016 I wonder how all those U.S. MOHs in European auctions make their way over there? Kurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #18 Posted March 23, 2016 I wonder how all those U.S. MOHs in European auctions make their way over there? Kurt How do all of the drugs make it into our country? Anything can be shipped anywhere for a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBFloyd Posted March 23, 2016 Share #19 Posted March 23, 2016 Within the larger Section 704 is the phrase "except persuant to regulation". That phrase refers to the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), which are the implementation instructions for the basic law. The CFR essentially exempts all US medals except the Medal of Honor. I would strongly suggest that anyone who collects US medals read and understand Title 18, Section 704 (and the appropriate parts of the CFR). It doesn't require a law degree to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cutiger83 Posted March 23, 2016 Share #20 Posted March 23, 2016 Within the larger Section 704 is the phrase "except persuant to regulation". That phrase refers to the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), which are the implementation instructions for the basic law. The CFR essentially exempts all US medals except the Medal of Honor. I would strongly suggest that anyone who collects US medals read and understand Title 18, Section 704 (and the appropriate parts of the CFR). It doesn't require a law degree to understand. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLegGI Posted March 23, 2016 Share #21 Posted March 23, 2016 Within the larger Section 704 is the phrase "except persuant to regulation". That phrase refers to the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), which are the implementation instructions for the basic law. The CFR essentially exempts all US medals except the Medal of Honor. I would strongly suggest that anyone who collects US medals read and understand Title 18, Section 704 (and the appropriate parts of the CFR). It doesn't require a law degree to understand. §507.8 Quite a nice loophole there. The intent of the law clearly is for manufacturers to make then sell their products but it doesn't specifically say as such. Very nice good sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyrocket Posted March 23, 2016 Share #22 Posted March 23, 2016 When it comes to laws such as this—The government is Straining Out Gnats while Swallowing Camels. Instead of prosecuting the person for falsely impersonation of military (heros, etc.) which they are doing. But then they overreach on this law—and outlaw the materials that are required to do the impersonation. This only complicates an all ready complicated mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garth Thompson Posted March 23, 2016 Share #23 Posted March 23, 2016 This topic is locked. Another pointless MoH discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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