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WWII Dutch Marines P41 Utility Shirt?

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Here's one that's been nagging at me for the nearly 40 years, it's this depiction in the 1975 book Naval, Marine, and Air Force Uniforms of World War 2, a Macmillan Color Series book by the well known British military uniform expert Andrew Mollo and illustrated by Malcolm McGregor also British, I first got this book in 1977, so I got the idea of posting all this here finally and scan subject in question.

 

 

 

Here we see a plate for Dutch Marines, with the one completely uniformed and equipped by the U.S., to include a stenciled on the pocket P41 of the Royal Dutch Marines insignia. All these illustrations are taken from life, meaning these were drawn from actual period photographs, the same goes for this books earlier companion book Army Uniforms of World War 2 by the same two guys.

 

Click then Click Again on Image for Enlarged View

post-34986-0-78412300-1456196524.jpg

 

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The Dutch Marine insignia in question in it's metal form

 

The photo this was taken from may of been taken at Camp Lejeune? but description of figure says Far East? The description of figure is, and I quote.

 

166. The Netherlands: Marine,

Far East, 1945

This marine wears U.S. Marine clothing and equipment with Dutch Marine Corps badge on left breast.

 

Equipment: Standard American woven equipment.

 

Weapons: U.S. .30 M1 carbine.

 

 

While we've seen several photos of the various subjects these illustrations have been taken from over these long years, ditto on the Army one, we've not seen this one. So I was wondering if this happened, if anyone else has seen or heard of the Dutch Marine Corps stencil on P41s worn by the Dutch? So far I got zilch hits when researching online.

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USMC 1941 HBTs did not exist until late 1941. The first contract was late November of 1941 if I recall correctly so not sure when this Dutch Marine would have been wearing them.


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A1C Matthew Seidler, Delta Company, 466th EOD killed in action. 05 Jan 12 at 1600L while conducting mounted route clearance patrols in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. He turned 24 two days before his death. Cousin, Soldier, Hero.

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USMC 1941 HBTs did not exist until late 1941. The first contract was late November of 1941 if I recall correctly so not sure when this Dutch Marine would have been wearing them.

This illustration from real life should be circa 1944-45.

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I can see if I can find a lend lease or non NOM contract for HBTs late in the war then.


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A1C Matthew Seidler, Delta Company, 466th EOD killed in action. 05 Jan 12 at 1600L while conducting mounted route clearance patrols in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. He turned 24 two days before his death. Cousin, Soldier, Hero.

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I can see if I can find a lend lease or non NOM contract for HBTs late in the war then.

Nah from what we've found so far these guys were trained and outfitted here in America, they arrived in late 1944, so it would just be standard USMC issue.

 

See this page I found, look on the left side bar.

 

http://historicperiodicals.princeton.edu/historic/cgi-bin/historic?a=d&d=MarineCorpsChevron19450616-01.2.82&e=-------en-20--1--txt-IN-----

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Basic training in the states

We used usmc emblem on Chest

 

What i been told by family that surved in the Dutch indies

We used usmc hbt take the pocket emblem of flip it And put it back on with usmc logo on the inside and a flap to be able to close pochet and Whore emblem on the sleev

 

Since 1950 give r take we whore the Dutch Chest emblem

 

Picture 1 basic training

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Awesome thanks for the info!


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A1C Matthew Seidler, Delta Company, 466th EOD killed in action. 05 Jan 12 at 1600L while conducting mounted route clearance patrols in Helmand Province, Afghanistan. He turned 24 two days before his death. Cousin, Soldier, Hero.

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The 'Mariniersbrigade' (Marbrig) was established on 13 September 1945 at Camp LeJeune as part of the Royal Netherlands Marine Corps and was formed with Dutch volunteers and conscripts living in non-occupied areas. The Marbrig was completely equipped and trained by the USMC. The first groups received standard USMC P41 shirts, and sometimes (but usually not) the pocket was removed, turned inside-out and re-sewn, so that USMC stamp was on the inside. Later groups were issued with green USMC P44 uniforms.

 

The Marbrig was sent to the Dutch East Indies and was fully operational during the Indonasian war of independence (1945-1950), until it was disbanded in 1949. The troops were either decomissioned or transferred back to the RNMC.

 

The RNMC adopted the P41 design and used it at least till the middle-late 1960's. These did however have the standard RNMC emblem stamped on the pocket, and usually plastic buttons. The illustration is actually showing a Dutch marine from around 1960, when they were stantioned on Dutch New Guinea and war with Indonesia was eminent. They were still issued with US WW2 weapons and equipment then. So the illustration itself is correct, but the period mentioned not.

 

On a side note, the scroll with the motto 'Qua Patet Orbis' was added to the emblem in 1947 or 1948.


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Our many thanks to CjVI and earlymb, excellent image of that original shirt CjVI.

 

This nails it down completely as far as we're concerned. A little artistic license their we imagine on the part of Malcolm MacGregor, we imagine this figure is indeed based on an actual late/immidiate post WWII photo, but he spruced it up with that RNMC stencil, the actual guy without a doubt had the pocket either flipped or just with the EGA stencil.

 

I going to have to try and see if I can find this photo now and post it here :D.

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Found this great photo, a RDM Officer wearing the U.S. M41 Jacket et al. We presume it's at LeJeune, of note while he wwears a Blacked RDM device on his "Cover" he seems to be wearing U.S. Rank Insignia, that for Lieutenant Colonel.

 

netm.jpeg

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3 hours ago, patches said:

Found this great photo, a RDM Officer wearing the U.S. M41 Jacket et al. We presume it's at LeJeune, of note while he wwears a Blacked RDM device on his "Cover" he seems to be wearing U.S. Rank Insignia, that for Lieutenant Colonel.

 

 

Would this be  Lieutenant Colonel L. Langeveld??? Can;t find a good image of him to tell.

netm.jpeg

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Some more pics of Dutch marines in the Dutch East-Indies wearing USMC M41's, typically worn tucked into the trousers.

 

Source: http://www.indiegangers.nl/index.php/nederlands-indie-foto-galerij/wb/gf?i=4_En_hier_word_ik_weer_met_twee_andere_wagens_de_weg_op_getrokken

 

 

27_samen_voor_de_tent__USMC_uniform-17245-1500-1500-80.jpg

 

28_samen_voor_de_tent___tentenkamp_USMC-17246-1500-1500-80.jpg

 

29_pose_voor_de_tent-17247-1500-1500-80.jpg

 

And this image is from the 1950's-early 1960's, with the RNMC emblem on the chest pocket. Note the VW Beetle in the background:

 

82_tentenkamp_etenstijd-17300-1500-1500-80.jpg


Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Corvette than in a Yugo.

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Thanks again earlymb, great photos. This LT Col I posted can you ID him?

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I'm not sure if that is a rank insignia on his collar, it could be a silver version of the RNMC emblem (same as worn on his side cap), I don't know who he is.

 

 


Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Corvette than in a Yugo.

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5 hours ago, earlymb said:

I'm not sure if that is a rank insignia on his collar, it could be a silver version of the RNMC emblem (same as worn on his side cap), I don't know who he is.

 

 

Could be as you say, maybe what these two are wearing on their collars of their coat.

image.png.916bcdf389359fde7683822bf984c25e.png

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On 5/23/2020 at 11:39 AM, earlymb said:

Some more pics of Dutch marines in the Dutch East-Indies wearing USMC M41's, typically worn tucked into the trousers.

 

Source: http://www.indiegangers.nl/index.php/nederlands-indie-foto-galerij/wb/gf?i=4_En_hier_word_ik_weer_met_twee_andere_wagens_de_weg_op_getrokken

 

 

27_samen_voor_de_tent__USMC_uniform-17245-1500-1500-80.jpg

 

28_samen_voor_de_tent___tentenkamp_USMC-17246-1500-1500-80.jpg

 

29_pose_voor_de_tent-17247-1500-1500-80.jpg

 

And this image is from the 1950's-early 1960's, with the RNMC emblem on the chest pocket. Note the VW Beetle in the background:

 

82_tentenkamp_etenstijd-17300-1500-1500-80.jpg

.

Dutch Marines using USMC clothing and equipment . . . . . .

 

Twenty years ago I bought a bunch of USMC clothing and webbing which came from Dutch stocks, I had rough out / flesh out ankle boots and a dozen of these Riesling camouflage bags and a few pieces of HBT all original WWII USMC. 

 

regards lewis.

 

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.

Young enough to care and enjoy militaria - Old enough to remember as surplus

 

" Life's too short for reproductions "

 

 

Life is like a tank of gas, the closer you get to a quarter tank, the faster it goes 

 

.

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Nice bags! The USMC ankle boots were also made locally for the RNMC till they stopped using the M41 uniform, in the late 1960's I believe.


Money can't buy happiness -- but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Corvette than in a Yugo.

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