A Tiger Zoo--Flying Tigers AVG, CBI, & 23rd Fighter Grouping + Other PTO ETO Heroes

[flyingtigerfan]

Haha! Very good Jose, sleep well! Nice pics and a good topic...

Un abrazo.

_Rob

[firefighter]

Gorgeous insignia and grouping.Thanks to ALL for sharing

[firefighter]

This is an amazing thread.Anyway we can PIN it?

[Steve Brannan]

Hope you don't mind me jumping on this great thread. Got this WWII photo in a collection I bought, Picture not identified. Does anyone recognize this guy? He's distinctive.

 

[Ricardo]

Hi Jose,

 

Please, I am looking for information of this veteran:

 

 

 

Would you have any information on this veteran, please?

 

Un saludo y gracias,

 

Ricardo.

 

 

[josesharontraders]

Hope you don't mind me jumping on this great thread. Got this WWII photo in a collection I bought, Picture not identified. Does anyone recognize this guy? He's distinctive.

 

Flying Tiger.jpg

Hi Steve,

 

 

Sorry to get back so late. In bahrain, work day starts on Sunday so been quite distracted. Now, 6pm and pretty hard to refocus on the hobby.

 

Yes, I'm sure my fellow usmilitaria collectors will help...I'll get back to you w some research on my off day midweek.

 

 

Un Cordial Saludo,

 

jose

 

 

ps. Offhand, I thought your CATF Officer was Harvey Greenlaw. But, I saw your guy somewhere else.

[josesharontraders]

Hi Jose,

 

Please, I am looking for information of this veteran:

 

 

 

Would you have any information on this veteran, please?

 

Un saludo y gracias,

 

Ricardo.

Hola Ricardo,

 

Buenas tardes.

 

Si Señor, our fellow usmilitaria colleagues and myself will try to find more provenance on your guy. Still distracted at work--con montón de trabas--so will get back on my day off to focus. In the ME Sunday is first work day of week.

 

Thank you, caballero, and you are always welcome to post your CBI stuff.

 

 

Atentamente Un cordial saludo,

 

jose

 

 

ps. in the meanwhile p.f. try to get a hold of the complete CATF Bulletins & CBI Roundup listing your guy from some online library or the 14th Air Force Association. My copies están demasiao lejos--en Cádiz--esperando a mi vuelta--in two months! All men, even old ones, like me have to work to pay the bills--and hobby.

[firefighter]

http://www.ancientfaces.com/person/hugh-c-macgibbon/151726442

 

http://death-records.mooseroots.com/l/172745442/Hugh-C-MacGibbon

 

http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/namesM.htm

[josesharontraders]

Hope you don't mind me jumping on this great thread. Got this WWII photo in a collection I bought, Picture not identified. Does anyone recognize this guy? He's distinctive.

 

Flying Tiger.jpg

Steve,

Good morning from Dubai--my off day today.

Below are my notes to identify your guy below. The first photo I saw was of your guy with A-2 CBI Jacket handing out candy to some cute little Chinese girls. Then, I discussed this with my old Pa-Va gang who are now retirable like me in some private thinking place. After running through both photos, our present US Consular’s Mission in Kunming, China popped up & had the same 2nd picture, promoting American-Chinese historical heritage, with a description of a General from New Delhi making a visit to the CATF (China Air Task Force) up in China. The General had just come from an inspection of the India Air Task Force.

So, the rest became simpler: We dismissed all the faces of other high-ranking CBI officers. Got ahold of the wartime CBI ROUNDUP and found 3 more confirmatory pictures. One of them shows the officer having lost a lot of weight for having to retreat with the composite US Army, Chinese Army and British Army 150 miles through the Burmese Jungle into India, with his boss commander, General Stilwell.

His name is Br. General Benjamin Greeley Ferris

The Pawn In An Anecdote Of CBI Generals. The reason he does not readily appear in any google image ranking for the CBI and any of the CATF (China Air Task Force) nor the 14th Air Force thereafter is that he only visited up in China spying over Maj. General Chennault in behalf of CBI Commander Lt. General Joseph Stilwell.

So, going back to the second photo, he was entertained with an honorary A-2 jacket and driven around Yunnan & Szechuan Provinces to inspect air asset infrastructure. The further away he was from Gen. Chennault’s Kunming HQ, the better. Claire Chennault, non-West Pointer and close in to China Generalissimo Chiang Kai Shek, had this constant running,¨gun battle¨, precisely for the performance of the AVG versus the recent retreat from Burma of Lt. General Stillwell.

Upon returning to New Delhi CBI HQ, his write up would probably include the usual womanising & black market profiteering aspersions on General Chennault. Later onwards, Generalissimo Chang Kai Shek asked for the removal from U.S. President FDR of General Stilwell. Chiang Kai Shek was also upset that the American command of his Chinese Army of the South was sacrificed to allow time for the retreating British Army. Down the road in retaliation, two weeks before Japan’s surrender, General Chennault, was retired by General Marshall and his staff of West Pointers.

Finally. So whew, our assessment is we are 98.5% sure this is your guy in the picture.

With compliments,

jose

Lookee below:

Benjamin G. Ferris, chief of staff of the Br. Hq. U.S.F. C.B.I. in New Delhi, is now a one-star general He was formerly G-4 of the First Army under Lt. Gen. Hugh Drum. He came to Burma last March to be Lt. Gen. Joseph W. Stilwell's G-4 during the Burma campaign. At the conclusion of that campaign he participated in the little 150 mile stroll out of Burma.

 

[josesharontraders]

Hope you don't mind me jumping on this great thread. Got this WWII photo in a collection I bought, Picture not identified. Does anyone recognize this guy? He's distinctive.

 

Flying Tiger.jpg

Some more info on your guy as described in our present US Consular Mission in Kunming, China, a nice tourist site:

 

 

Deputy Chief of Staff, China-Burma-India Theater (1943–1944)

CONSTRUCTION OF A CHINESE AIRFIELD 修建中国机场

An American officer hands out candy to female laborers on break during the construction of an airfield in China in 1943.

Source: National Archives and Records Administration

在一处中国机场施工现场：一名美国军官正在向在一处中国机场施工现场劳动间隙的中国女性劳工发放糖果。

时间：1943年

资料来源：美国国家档案馆

网址：http://www.fold3.com/image/28851677/

[josesharontraders]

Hope you don't mind me jumping on this great thread. Got this WWII photo in a collection I bought, Picture not identified. Does anyone recognize this guy? He's distinctive.

 

Flying Tiger.jpg

VOL. I NO. 10 DELHI, THURSDAY NOVEMBER 19, 1942.

THE STARS FELL ON C.B.I.

FIVE NEW BRIGADIERS APPOINTED

The Stilwell group jarred loose with four new brigadier generals last week and the S.O.S. came through with one.

One star fell on Chungking, one on New Delhi and three on the Chinese-American Training Center in eastern India. It can be said that the recipients are happy about the whole thing.

Benjamin G. Ferris, chief of staff of the Br. Hq. U.S.F. C.B.I. in New Delhi, is now a one-star general He was formerly G-4 of the First Army under Lt. Gen. Hugh Drum. He came to Burma last March to be Lt. Gen. Joseph W. Stilwell's G-4 during the Burma campaign. At the conclusion of that campaign he participated in the little 150 mile stroll out of Burma.

General William (Bill) Powell also came over with "the old man." He is the theater G-1 and holds forth in Chungking where he has been from the start with the exception of trips to Burma and India. Powell was Stilwell's G-1 when the latter commanded the Third Army Corps, stationed in Monterey, Calif. He hasn't had a chance to take a long walk like General Ferris has.

General Frederick McCabe is commandant of the Chinese-American Training Center. He was with Stilwell as G-3 of the 7th Division at Ford Ord and later as G-3 of the Third Army Corps. During the Burma campaign he acted as liaison officer with the Sixth Chinese Army over in the Shan States. Yes - he walked out too.

General W. H. Holcomb is running the S.O.S. down at the Chinese-American Training Center. He started out in this clam bake with Stilwell in Burma like all the rest. As an engineer officer he spent a lot of his time touring about North and Central Burma, checking on roads, bridges and possible air fields.

Before joining Stilwell, Holcomb acted as assistant commandant of the Engineer School at Fort Belvoir, Va.

The baby of the new appointees is General Hayden L. Boatner. He is a member of the West Point class of 1923 and was only made a colonel last June. Before coming to Burma with the Stilwell group he had organized the original MacGruder mission and acted as its Washington representative.

He didn't walk out with Stilwell. He went up the Burma Road into China with the rest of the Americans and others who were in Lashio. At present he is Chief of Staff of the Chinese Expeditionary Force and is stationed at the training camp.

The new Brigadiers left to right starting up going down are your General Ferris, General McCabe, General Holcomb, General Powell, & General Boatner.

[josesharontraders]

Steve Brannan, on 29 Apr 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:

 

Hope you don't mind me jumping on this great thread. Got this WWII photo in a collection I bought, Picture not identified. Does anyone recognize this guy? He's distinctive.

 

Flying Tiger.jpg

​Steve, Señor:

 

Last but not least, some proper links on your General Ferris' military career and some more confirmatory pictures:

Links:

 

• Cullum, George W. (1950). Biographical Register of the Officers and Graduates of the US Military Academy at West Point New York since its Establishment in 1802: Supplement Volume IX 1940–1950. Chicago, Illinois: R. R. Donnelly and Sons, The Lakeside Press. Retrieved 13 October 2015.

Check out p.201 http://digital-library.usma.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/p16919coll3/id/22314/rec/10

 

HIS MILITARY CAREER:

5416 BENJAMIN GREELEY FERRIS (B-NY 20 Sep 1892; A-NY).104

Military History:-(Lt Col Inf 1 Oct 36) Governors Island NY, AC/S G-4, Hq 2 CA,

Nov 40-(Col AUS 26 Jun 41)-(LM)-Dec 41; Washington DC, Planning Staff for CBI,

Jan-Feb 42; CBI, Dpty C/S, Mar 42-(Brig Gen AUS 28 Oct 42)-(Col Inf I Mar 44)-

(LM BSM CR)-Nov 44; Washington DC, AGF Planning Sect, Dec 44-(Brig Gen AUS

terminated 30 Nov 45)-Mar 46; Governors Island NY, AC/S G-1 2 SvC and First

Army, 1 Apr 46-21 Mar 49; Heidelberg Germany, Dir Civil Affairs Div Hq EUCOM,

6 Apr 49-

• Ancell, R. Manning; Miller, Christine (1996). The Biographical Dictionary of World War II Generals and Flag Officers: The US Armed Forces. Westport, Connecticut: Greenwood Press. ISBN 0-313-29546-8.

 

First Picture. Lookee Below a picture of General Ferris after his escape from Burma with Lt. Gen. Stilwell.

 

2nd Picture. Gen. Ferris appears informally with Allied Commanders adjourning a military summit for the China-Burma-India Theatre of War. Please remember in the CBI it was mostly American power that was contributed, because Admiral Nimitz' plan to place a US land army on the Asian continent--to bomb Japan & then stop the Chinese Communist Army from pounding the weary Nationalist KMT Army that faced the brunt of the battles with the Japanese Kwangtung Army in China--was supplanted by Gen. Douglas MacArthur's invasion of the Philippine Commonwealth.

 

So from left to right. Brig. Gen. B. G. Ferris, Field Marshal Sir John Dill, a British naval officer, Lt. Gen. H. H. Arnold, Maj. Gen. R. A. Wheeler, Gen. Ho Ying Chen, Field Marshal Wavell.

 

3rd Picture. American Air Power in the CBI.

[josesharontraders]

http://www.ancientfaces.com/person/hugh-c-macgibbon/151726442

 

http://death-records.mooseroots.com/l/172745442/Hugh-C-MacGibbon

 

http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/namesM.htm

HI Firefighter, my man;

 

Thank you for hitting it right on the nail. We hope Don Ricardo has sufficient information with your links.

 

Thanks again, Ernie.

 

 

Saludos,

 

Jose

[josesharontraders]

Hola Ricardo,

 

Buenas tardes.

 

Si Señor, our fellow usmilitaria colleagues and myself will try to find more provenance on your guy. Still distracted at work--con montón de trabas--so will get back on my day off to focus. In the ME Sunday is first work day of week.

 

Thank you, caballero, and you are always welcome to post your CBI stuff.

 

 

Atentamente Un cordial saludo,

 

jose

 

 

ps. in the meanwhile p.f. try to get a hold of the complete CATF Bulletins & CBI Roundup listing your guy from some online library or the 14th Air Force Association. My copies están demasiao lejos--en Cádiz--esperando a mi vuelta--in two months! All men, even old ones, like me have to work to pay the bills--and hobby.

Hi Ricardo,

 

I hope that our fellow usmilitariaforum member's suggested links were helpful. You can also use the Westpoint Register to get his full career.

 

Let us know if any more help & again, all CBI collectors, AVG, 23rd Fighter Group, CATFers, INDIA Air Task Force (quite rare), PTOers are invited here to post in our thread.

 

jose

[josesharontraders]

Hi Jose,

 

Please, I am looking for information of this veteran:

 

 

 

Would you have any information on this veteran, please?

 

Un saludo y gracias,

 

Ricardo.

Hola Alteza Ricardo,

 

 

Buenas tardes.

 

Hahahahah...in my line we go the extra mile as a team. So taking from firefighter's excellent links, here are your enlisted airman's leads to access his military career as well as his death records in Florida. Very nice grouping, tío.

 

Firefighter, bro, thank you again. You are most welcome to post more in our thread, Ricardo.

 

M'salaam or shukran, as they say here.

 

 

Jose

 

ps. Whew, I'll be glad to get out of this side of the ditch (Suez Canal) to finally find some yummy, crispy bacon. hahahahahahah

[Ricardo]

Thank you so much!!!

 

Regards from Brazil,

 

Ricardo.

[firefighter]

Here are some of my items.

^

 

Flying Tigers ring

^

 

An unusual fund raising pin. You normally see the ones for England but this is the CHINA RELIEF

^

 

I was told a LONG time ago that this was a medal given to the men & women that served in CHINA. It is marked on the top with 'WASC', War Area Service Corps.

^

 

Chinese Infantry Training Center pin

^

 

Chines medal & certificate. These came together.

^

 

[flytiger]

Hello All!

just reviewing this superb Tiger thread to bring back a few memories. Jose, are you still out there? Wonderful stuff still and always. Had dinner last night with a very good friend and ex. Flying Tiger Line Captain also and we were naming the AVG folks we flew with as Co-pilots in the late 60's - 70s ( DC-8-63s back then ). Brought back more memories today of time spent with them mainly in the cockpit but also lifting a glass or two on Hong Kong lay overs

and some smokey parties in hotels near Yokota on the MAC flights ( no I didn't smoke but if you wanted to party you had to put up with it! ). Great times and wonderful people to a man!

Wish I had pursued Catfish's offer to give me a few things but I didn't and of course they were long gone before I got serious about that. I guess the only "real" item I do have by luck is a pair of Bob Prescott's first issue FTL wings

and proud to have them to be sure.

Any one with a original CATF leather patch they can spare let me know!

[josesharontraders]

On 8/29/2019 at 12:21 PM, flytiger said:

 

 

Hello All!

just reviewing this superb Tiger thread to bring back a few memories. Jose, are you still out there? Wonderful stuff still and always. Had dinner last night with a very good friend and ex. Flying Tiger Line Captain also and we were naming the AVG folks we flew with as Co-pilots in the late 60's - 70s ( DC-8-63s back then ). Brought back more memories today of time spent with them mainly in the cockpit but also lifting a glass or two on Hong Kong lay overs

and some smokey parties in hotels near Yokota on the MAC flights ( no I didn't smoke but if you wanted to party you had to put up with it! ). Great times and wonderful people to a man!

Wish I had pursued Catfish's offer to give me a few things but I didn't and of course they were long gone before I got serious about that. I guess the only "real" item I do have by luck is a pair of Bob Prescott's first issue FTL wings

and proud to have them to be sure.

Any one with a original CATF leather patch they can spare let me know!

 

Hello flytiger,

 

Hua! to you and hooyaa! from me. Yes I haven't tripped yet on a middle eastern marshmallow or an Izmirian baklava, and am still kicking. Thanks for your service. Glad to know I'm not only the one ageing per your profile. I haven't been in my hobby for almost 4 years, because of work & training my baby boos to take the helm w my dudes, so that one day I can avoid too much travel. Heck just 5 months ago we were the last passengers the day before they closed Ataturk Airport for good, being wheeled around on an auto chair for some of my old man's medical ailments, then 2 months ago, I was in LA and found an excuse to drive down & spend a whole day with the people of SDAir&Space Museum. Wonderful! I don't know how much radiation you sap in the air, but I'm in that wonky category--we shall see in the next checkup. Hahahah.

 

I have nice pics & definitive research findings on the AVG-Flying Tigers to share when I get the time hopefully this year, if nothing on my stress radar. Forgive me if I misstate anything as I'm rusty for the AVG-CATF stuff, which will be shared in good time. For now, my thoughts:

 

1) So you became civilian with FTLines in late 60s and 70s? In overlap, my dad had an airline and catering service (under Dobbs Houses, if you remember before they got bought by Carson, Perie, Scott & Co., owners of the Pillsbury doughboy), so we did meals for some MAC flights, military& dependents (and for sure, for those my dad handled you loved the food from Kadena or Yokosuka to Clark or Cubi Point or to D.Garcia & back to the mainland, etc.---hehehe). I recall him telling me when FTLines had a no-go situation we rented out white tails to them, and also supplied crew to help ferry your newer leases coming stateside from Majuro island to manila and onwards.

 

2) Hong Kong is so different now. No more Suzie Wong in Wanchai red light raunchy nights. I was there just 3 weeks ago in early August, and got locked out of the Marco Polo hotel in Kowloon after dinner when the kids demonstrating blocked the road. Also I didn't like the way the police arm-twisted and dragged the young faces of those screaming smart kids even after they had been detained. Will send you pics if you like by private mail. Yep, the capitalist free-for-all ways of the Cantonese has almost disappeared, and the sneaky Chinese have successfully awakened the populace's single-minded defiance. Traditionally & historically, it recalls the war between rebellious Southern Sung vs. the Emperors in the North. The place is on the way down. Ask any of the yanks staying there. Move to Bangkok or Pattaya, or P. Burgos in Manila, I would say, if I was young. Hehehe.

 

3)After all the preceding story of an old man's travels, I deserve a look-see of AVG Bob Prescott's first issue FTL wings. Please brother--SHOW US? And if ever they are in your list to sell when you turn 75, per your profile, remember me in southern Spain. I am just a dhl or Fedex away, YO GIRL? (as my youngest kid now in my Pennsylvania high school would say)..hahahahahha

 

4) Here are some CATF era stuff, which I'll explain later with more precious time:

CATF overlapped from June '42 to 'mid/Sept '43, and only had the measly 23rd Fighter Group w 3 squadrons 74th to 76th and a bomber group + an airdrome squadron. By mid 1943 Gen. Chennault successfully convinced Pres. FDR's visiting buddy Wendell Wilkie to create the 14th Air Force (late '43 to '45) and get out from India-based 10th Airforce of Gen. Joe Stillwell. In all those times, the AVG guys and gals went back stateside, joined CNAC after some rest, re-enilisted stateside at higher rank, or remained with Gen. Chennault's CATF numbering such as the few 23 AVG GHQ staff + 5 AVG pilots who formed the core of the new ¨flying tigers.¨

 

Above sample Catf & 75th fighter squadron patches.

 

Usually the early catf patches faced sinister. This one I've shown already.

 

Below are former AVG & Texas NG Gen. Tex Hill's post AVG (thus a reproduction) & CBI patch. They were made in China for the early FT AVG Association and given to the remaining tigers with Gen. Chennault to elevate their status & prompt inspiration among the incoming U.S. personnel. Tex Hill gave these away to the local French politicos at end 1952 USO visit with other pilots to Villefranche-sur-Mer, the base of U.S. 6th fleet (USS Columbus) to rally troops set to leave for the korean theatre.

Spent half a day at the SDASM with the assistant curator and head curator showing their own exact blue AVG patch (donated by the early official attorney of the Flying Tigers Robert Schreibman). We agreed both patches were made in China and probably from the same tailors that GHQ AVG Skip Adaire and AVG RT Smith ordered the originals during the FT-AVG period. (will elaborate sometime this year or soon if there is more time)

 

Also admin bob is waiting for this elaboration, so that's a promise--an avg all-in patch discussion later, bro. Hahahahahahah.

 

So, you can say the avg blue reprod. patch and the cbi patches were also from the CATF period.

 

Your pilot Bob Prescott joined the CNAC and must've had these insignia as well. CNAC became partly American-controlled from 1933 through 1946, and many AVG pilots joined CNAC starting July to Sept 1942 after a bit of rest stateside.

 

Here are some examples:

 

 

 

 

Last but not least, here is your friend AVG Catfish Raines' own photo collection when he first joined CNAC right after the Flying Tigers & secured the autograph of one of CNAC's earliest veteran pilots, Bill Kelley, who flew for Gen. Chennault and Generalissimo Chiang Kai-Shek. The photo then could have been taken during the CATF period by your friend Catfish.

 

Thanks flytiger for waking me up from an almost 4-year slumber on the hobby. All good people and fellow collectors are welcome to private message me if something to sell, though it'll be stockpiled for awhile.

 

Also, I'm on the lookout for any p-40s, fuselages and engines, but not in dinky parts please because it'll take a museum's weekend volunteers a lifetime to assemble, so we can lend it to the SDASM. Terry Brennan the head of the museum and his people were bummed out when the last P-40 was pulled out and now at the D.C. Smithsonian A&S. Please don't forget this.

 

Most sincerely to all my fellow usmiltaria bros & gals,

 

jose

 

ps. to admin boss bob, I was at Huntington Beach in early June but hanged around the Tommy bahama store to update my hula shirts. I thought of you, chief. j.

[flytiger]

Jose, Well great to see you still lead the way in Tiger material. After your slumber you must be ready to jump back in! I don't think Bob Prescott went to CNAC. He was flying VIP's around for various meetings towards the end of WW2 and was well in to starting Flying Tiger Line late 1946-47 if I remember right. I only met him once at Tigers as being a line pilot did not bring me in to the lofty confines of hQ except for training sessions. I started with FTL on the L1049H and only flew right seat about 100 hours in it before being forced to head to CL-44 training which I did not complete as I had a 3 year leave for active duty US Army Helicopters ( Vietnam) then back to Tigers as a FO on the DC-8-63 and did the next 20 with them before Fedex bought us and did 9 more with them. All good. The day Tigers became Fedex one of the ops girls gave me the wall calender

with a sliding square focused on that date.Hangs downstairs to this day. Had a few very interesting trips as a tiger , and of course flew with some great people.!

[josesharontraders]

Flytiger,

 

Thank you for sharing your life and times at Flying Tigers lines and your service in Vietnam. Can you imagine if they had flight simulators at the time vs. the stationary sets. I remember watching my dad's pilots practicing in those rooms before moving to actual flight operations. Thank you for the nostalgia, my bro.

 

Hope you find your CATF insignia, and please post Mr. Robert Prescott's Flying Tigers Line first issue wings. Thank you.

 

jose

[josesharontraders]

Jose, Well great to see you still lead the way in Tiger material. After your slumber you must be ready to jump back in! I don't think Bob Prescott went to CNAC. He was flying VIP's around for various meetings towards the end of WW2 and was well in to starting Flying Tiger Line late 1946-47 if I remember right. I only met him once at Tigers as being a line pilot did not bring me in to the lofty confines of hQ except for training sessions. I started with FTL on the L1049H and only flew right seat about 100 hours in it before being forced to head to CL-44 training which I did not complete as I had a 3 year leave for active duty US Army Helicopters ( Vietnam) then back to Tigers as a FO on the DC-8-63 and did the next 20 with them before Fedex bought us and did 9 more with them. All good. The day Tigers became Fedex one of the ops girls gave me the wall calender

with a sliding square focused on that date.Hangs downstairs to this day. Had a few very interesting trips as a tiger , and of course flew with some great people.!

 

Hola flytiger,

 

Buenos dias/good morning.

 

Lockheed Downfall. You know thinking about what my dad went through with airlines and airline equipment, I think the earlier versions of Lockheeds and the Canada Airs--your CL-44s & DC8-63s--you gained flight time on were the great ones. Later on, the downfall of Lockheed was the ¨ETOPs¨ tri-engine design that made it sooo expensive to operate for the fuel. And, Lockheed made that just to comply with flying over ocean, instead of lobbying the NTSB to accept the new ¨Over Water¨ engines of GE or Rolls Royce, like today.

 

Mcdonnel Douglas Downfall. For the douglas plant, which I visited w my dad in long beach way back when, their own downfall was placing those engines at the tail end of the fuselage. Later on, NTSB had findings of higher probability of sucking in dust, debris, and small parts from the runway on take off. On top of that, Mcdonnel Douglas used their military division to subsidise the civilan upgrades to the MDs (with twin engines on the tail end) + the tri-engine MD-11 (another mistake like the DC-10), which were so expensive to operate. I remember our last meet in the early 90s at their Long Beach, Ca. conference room when you could overhear their executives asking for travel money for another gig--signal of the last throes of a business. Some months later they went under and Boeing took full control of the military division, phasing out all the civilian MD designs.

 

Like your Flying Tigers Lines, notice Fred Smith of Fedex picking up all of the MD-11s for cargo conversion (as well as the old a-300bs, a number of which my dad's airline operated + ex-UAL/Viking Airways Boeing dash 200s, 300s & 400s). Ironically, the budget carriers came in by using again the old twin-engined dc-9s parked in the desert and wiped out many a traditional airline, then stepped up buying newer aircraft and sending the old planes back to the Nevada/Arizona desert or Ireland.

 

If You Insist To Be In The Aviation Business, Military or Civilian, Beware the Pan Am Tale. So thank you Fedex for saving us aircraft owners, airlines, ex- u.s.-military pilots etc. ...hehehehehahahah. Just my remembrance on monitoring people in flight operations with many moving parts. I think cargo-logistics business or chartering, classified or civilian, is the best way to go. Plus, the likes of Fedex can rely on cannibalising the available supply of ready, young less expensive U.S. navy, marines and Air Force pilots and grow the cargo business with lesser regulatory hoopla vs. passenger business. Can you imagine, I have a distant relative on my mother's side in his 80s, Mr. D'aquila, in New York City, who endures until today as the official receiver and caretaker of all documents, assets and remains of Pan Am!

 

Airlines, aircraft, fuselages, engines & avionics, upgrades, A-checks to D-checks, plus FAR regulations makes this business so stressful, my friend. Glad you ironically de-stressed by going back to the military in between, where everything is subsidized--hahahhahhehehe. Just my last thoughts on our topic, bro.

 

 

Good weekender to you.

 

jose

[josesharontraders]

On 8/30/2019 at 8:19 AM, josesharontraders said:

Thanks flytiger for waking me up from an almost 4-year slumber on the hobby. All good people and fellow collectors are welcome to private message me if something to sell, though it'll be stockpiled for awhile.

 

Also, I'm on the lookout for any p-40s, fuselages and engines, but not in dinky parts please because it'll take a museum's weekend volunteers a lifetime to assemble, so we can lend it to the SDASM. Terry Brennan the head of the museum and his people were bummed out when the last P-40 was pulled out and now at the D.C. Smithsonian A&S. Please don't forget this.

 

Most sincerely to all my fellow usmiltaria bros & gals,

 

jose

 

ps. to admin boss bob, I was at Huntington Beach in early June but hanged around the Tommy bahama store to update my hula shirts. I thought of you, chief. j.

Oops & Yikes, people. I was reviewing my post San Diego Air and Space Museum visit with Terry Brennan & the Head Curator & Registrar Al V., and I stand corrected that ¨[they] were sad when [their] P-40B Warhawk was pulled out and bequeathed to the Navy Air & Space museum¨--NOT THE D.C. Smithsonian A&S.

 

Anyway here is the front view from the inside of P-40 Warhawk cockpit those AVG Flying Tigers flew:

 

Here is the rear view, above horizon

 

Here is Front View with the instruments (avionics). The only difference with the Flying Tigers AVG Warhawk was that the crew chiefs placed a larger lever release handle to manage the improvised bomb racks used to accommodate the fat bombs the Soviet Volunteer Group (1936-1939) left in a stockpile that were effective in smashing the Kwantung Armies 60,000 elite vanguard troops about to invade the Southern belly of China crossing from Burma's Salween River & Burma Road onto the 27-Zig Zag road on the China side.

 

Planes today are mostly fly-by-wire, but imagine the lever breaking off just to release far heavier bombs from not-originally-designed improvised bomb racks.

 

 

Left view of from inside a P-40b Warhawk

 

 

Inside Rear Horizon View from P-40b Warhawk cockpit

 

 

And lastly, the Inside Right View from a P-40b Warhawk cockpit.

 

[josesharontraders]

Ok last but not least before its very late bedtime here in Southern Spain and work for some weeks, here humbly is just the start of a research over 3 years on AVG patches, their variants, and the highly probable time of when and why they were ordered near the end of the AVG Flying Tigers story, a very few being ordered by Chennault's organisation even during the CATF period.

 

In all cases, period AVG shoulder patches were made:

 

1) as souvenir mementos for the outgoing Flying Tigers AVG;

 

2) to soothe the 300 AVG from the friction with overt USAAF subordination by April 1942, and

 

3) to elevate their status in front of the newly arrived USAAF personnel from early June 1942 onwards as they wore their also newly arrived USA-made tunics with these thinly sewn AVG silk shoulder patches.

 

Think of the small elite group of ¨Masters¨ running around a Kung Fu temple amongst the thousands of new ¨grasshoppers¨ under training...hahahahahah. Will share out the accompanying research when I get back to this hobby in a few weeks. Until then, please enjoy these 2 pictures with proposed topics:

 

Master AVG Patch Comparison May 1941 - post AVG CATF period March 1943 &

Master AVG Patch Variant Comparison May 1941 - post AVG CATF period March 1943

 

 

 

Note though, in the variants comparison my USMilitaria friend Walika possesses another type AVG Patch design as well. And so, last picture before schlaffen time:

 

Goodnight/buenas noches...thanks.

[jeffjorgensen]

what an amazing collection, love it