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A Tiger Zoo--Flying Tigers AVG, CBI, & 23rd Fighter Grouping + Other PTO ETO Heroes


josesharontraders
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josesharontraders

Hola firefighter,

 

 

Buenas tardes from Asia.

 

Will fly back to the ME this weekend and shukran-shukran (thank you-thankee) my way around bahrain and qatar for 2 weeks. Those guys have their first week day on a Sunday.

 

Thanks for that nostalgic tray. hahahahaha. I wish i had a patch from your A-10 squadron--another less busy day. I sent you a short message.

 

Fyi.

 

jose

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firefighter

Hola firefighter,

 

 

Buenas tardes from Asia.

 

Will fly back to the ME this weekend and shukran-shukran (thank you-thankee) my way around bahrain and qatar for 2 weeks. Those guys have their first week day on a Sunday.

 

Thanks for that nostalgic tray. hahahahaha. I wish i had a patch from your A-10 squadron--another less busy day. I sent you a short message.

 

Fyi.

 

jose

 

Jose,

 

PM me your address.I'll see what I have. Ernie

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josesharontraders

Hola Dick,

 

Buenas noches from yonder Asia.

 

I took the liberty of pasting this elaboration of your set from your thread, as it was investigated and attributed with proper provenance by Señor Burkey, a well known super expert on Flying Tigers AVG (American Volunteer Group) artefacts and memorabilia.

 

The more information you place, the more you and family will be assured that if ever you decide to part with this lucky, beautiful storied AVG set, the price will be north of ¨xxx thousands of US dollars¨. (Internally, boooohoooo hoo--you could pass this NOW to the Tiger Zoo).

 

A Proper Place For Price Ranges Of AVG Items. Anyway, this thread would become a proper reference site for recently done Flying Tigers AVG price ranges--from AVG Pins, Chinese Air Force Wings, Patches, whole P-40E Warhawk Planes (hahahah), etc.

 

Thank you for posting, caballero Dick.

 

Saludos,

 

Jose

 

 

ps. there will be a topic, some three topics from now, with a price range list for AVG items.

 

ps2. To Our Friends From http://flyingtigersavg.com, especially the kids & grandkids of the Flying Tigers AVG members, you are invited to post whatever pieces or stories of your famous grandad/grand-mum from the times of their lives. I'm sure everyone here would like to learn more so that we remember from such a crucial point of history, when America's Pacific prestige was sullied, how these AVG guys and gals put up the lone fight to regain American righteousness. With Communist China forgetting this history today and a future brawl in the far horizon, their story serves as a valuable lesson.

 

 

 

Posted 08 January 2015 - 10:15 PM

I found the missing cigarette case that was bought with the AVG items. I was not sure what I found since the cigarette case did not seem to bear any relationship to the AVG. All of the AVG items fit inside. The monogram on the front is a P” and the inscription reads:

 

Pete,

Happy Birthday

Love, Jane

July 15, 1942

 

I emailed a photograph of the case to Ron Burkey from Flying Tiger Antiques and Ron was able to solve the mystery. The "Pete" was John E. Petach, Jr and the Jane was Emma Jane “Red” Foster Petach his wife. July 15, 1942 was Petach’s birthday. John Petach was killed while on a bombing and strafing mission at Nanchang China on July 10, 1942. After his death, his wife, Emma Jane Petach, returned to her hometown of Bellefonte, Pennsylvania. Bellefonte was where these items were bought at an estate sale in the 1980’s. The silver cigarette case was made by Marathon and was a birthday present that “Jane” could never give to “Pete” since he died five days before his birthday.

Dick

 

 

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Patchcollector

Great stuff everyone,I hope that this thread will get pinned,it's a great reference for the real Flying Tigers pieces.

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flyingtigerfan

Hi All,

I'd like to add a couple items from my AVG collection to Jose's most excellent thread. He obviously has a very impressive collection and great taste in badges and insignia. He is very knowledgeable, thanks for sharing Jose! I too share his enthusiasm for the tiger badges. This piece is my favorite single AVG item and has an interesting history. This is a large one of a kind theater made Tiger badge, unusual in many respects including that it faces the "other" way. Very finely done with a complicated construction. It was worn by a AVG member who left the group a couple months before its disbandment. He still received an honorable discharge from Chennault. Upon making his way back to the states he hitched a ride aboard the freighter SS Bienville departing Calcutta headed for Ceylon. Luck was not on his side, on April 6th 1942 the Bienville fell victim to the effects of Japanese aerial bombing by aircraft from the carrier Ryujo and was finished off by shelling from the Cruiser Chokai. The surviving crew jumped into the water as the ship quickly met its demise, 3 of the 4 lifeboats had been badly damaged but the fourth fell into the water as well as a few rafts. The AVGer was one of the few survivors who was able to make it to the lifeboat and eventually back stateside where he rejoined the service. He lost all his gear and souvenirs in the sinking but still retained the bush jacket he was wearing and the insignia upon it. Note in my photos it's large size as compared with a full size W&H badge. Included is a period shot of this distinctive badge being worn on his bush jacket. Also notice his AVG ID card that was in his pocket, signed by Chennault showing the effects of immersion.

 

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post-19820-0-73568700-1461387773.jpg

 

post-19820-0-77094000-1461387748.jpg

 

post-19820-0-50037300-1461387727.jpg

 

post-19820-0-32500200-1461387700.jpg

 

 

 

 

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flyingtigerfan

Actually I never had it tested. It is unmarked, I've had it for many years and it has never tarnished, doesn't look like silver so I'd guess some high quality materials.

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Patchcollector

Hi All,

I'd like to add a couple items from my AVG collection to Jose's most excellent thread. He obviously has a very impressive collection and great taste in badges and insignia. He is very knowledgeable, thanks for sharing Jose! I too share his enthusiasm for the tiger badges. This piece is my favorite single AVG item and has an interesting history. This is a large one of a kind theater made Tiger badge, unusual in many respects including that it faces the "other" way. Very finely done with a complicated construction. It was worn by a AVG member who left the group a couple months before its disbandment. He still received an honorable discharge from Chennault. Upon making his way back to the states he hitched a ride aboard the freighter SS Bienville departing Calcutta headed for Ceylon. Luck was not on his side, on April 6th 1942 the Bienville fell victim to the effects of Japanese aerial bombing by aircraft from the carrier Ryujo and was finished off by shelling from the Cruiser Chokai. The surviving crew jumped into the water as the ship quickly met its demise, 3 of the 4 lifeboats had been badly damaged but the fourth fell into the water as well as a few rafts. The AVGer was one of the few survivors who was able to make it to the lifeboat and eventually back stateside where he rejoined the service. He lost all his gear and souvenirs in the sinking but still retained the bush jacket he was wearing and the insignia upon it. Note in my photos it's large size as compared with a full size W&H badge. Included is a period shot of this distinctive badge being worn on his bush jacket. Also notice his AVG ID card that was in his pocket, signed by Chennault showing the effects of immersion.

 

 

 

 

 

That is a magnificent badge,and a great story to go with it too.The piece is obviously well made.Is that a diamond(?) in the Tigers eye?You may want to have the badge tested(and also insured!)

 

If you have a moment could you please post a rear view of this great badge?

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flyingtigerfan

Thanks for the kind replies. There is a diamond in the eye! As for a picture of the back I think I'll refrain - it's a one off badge and I'd like to keep it that way, it has an odd construction, the front could be reproduced but the odd back could not without seeing it. I have a bit of faker paranoia - the bush jacket that this badge was once on is in a museum now, it has what I believe are also one off shoulder strap devices - these have now been reproduced since it has been displayed. These days it seems just about anything is game for the fakers.

-Rob

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josesharontraders

Hi all from Manama, Bahrain,

 

Good evening.

 

Haven't gotten back to this thread in awhile. Will comment on all the nice goody stuff other AVG Flying Tigers Artefacts collectors have been posting. The weekend in the ME starts on Friday and Saturday--weird stuff.

 

Nice to also see the US Navy 5th Fleet's facilities expansion going nicely yonder here--lots of our Ticonderoga-class CGs full of swabies, few of our CGNs (Cruiser Guided Nuclear) and our newer Littoral class destroyers for shallower areas of the Persian Gulf. Yes, like the arrangement with the Japanese who pay for the upkeep of our NAFs & NFs (Naval Air & Naval Facilities) in Yokosuka etc, here in Bahrain the Arabs have effectively footed the $600b expansion--yummy stuff for contractors, consultants, inspectors and hangers-on.

 

Thank you to the British Empire for giving up these facilities to US squids at the close of WW2 and under the Bretton-Woods agreement.

 

So, very hard to get back to a hobby from stress and travel, but for you, Owen, Chief, we shall post some pics and maybe my bp will go down, caballero, with lesser comments:

 

Here Is My Flying Tigers Travel Set (Note Tiger #4 & the Small Tiger):

post-160067-0-84821500-1461858329.jpg

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josesharontraders

Here is a 30x Loupe-magnified photo of a Unique Whitehead & Hoag Flying Tigers Pin (#4) With A Burma Ruby.

 

The price range is from $12,0000 to $15,000, but it isn't for sale. There will be a price listing section several threads from now:

post-160067-0-90354600-1461858995.jpg

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josesharontraders

Here is AVG Crew Chief John Overley's Whitehead & Hoag Mini Tiger Pin With Ruby at 30x Loupe magnification.

The price range with the attribution value aspect is from $6,000 to $8000, though not for sale but for all to enjoy:

 

 

post-160067-0-19235000-1461859289.jpg

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josesharontraders

Now, Owen, hombre, getting back to your wonderful conversation on how your Dad was a buddy to an AVG Pilot, could you please give us some recollections of stories you overheard at the diner with your Dad and his buddy?

 

Goodnight, Señor.

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josesharontraders

Thanks for the kind replies. There is a diamond in the eye! As for a picture of the back I think I'll refrain - it's a one off badge and I'd like to keep it that way, it has an odd construction, the front could be reproduced but the odd back could not without seeing it. I have a bit of faker paranoia - the bush jacket that this badge was once on is in a museum now, it has what I believe are also one off shoulder strap devices - these have now been reproduced since it has been displayed. These days it seems just about anything is game for the fakers.

-Rob

THE FOLLOWING IS FROM THREAD #79, CITING TOPIC 6:

Hola & Happy Sunday to all:

Buenas noches.

Muchas gracias tío PC for the compliment.

Upcoming Topics AVG & Ace Fighter Related. Now that we're back home I so wanted to line up some other displays with respect:

1) Flying Tigers Line and its vital role;

2) the Life and Times of the American Volunteer Group and additional AVG stuff;

3) a display & guide to assessing bona fide autographs of important USA fighter aces and bomber captains;

4) a new piece on Claire Chennault;

5) a history of CNAC & the AVG from the viewpoint of an allied British spy, based on unpublished documents & additional CNAC pieces;

& 6) lastly, a respectful reference and homage to the best AVG private collection on display owned by a buddy of mine.

Avoiding A Running Gunbattle W/ The Wifey. My Macbook video card conked out and entered comatose probably from the bumpy ride in the Douro Mountains to Évora going back to Southern Spain, and it'll be fixed in a week--whoops. Meanwhile, I am subject to the mercy of the nice wifey and won't be able to sneak in any of my dropbox shrunken photos and clutter her mac.

CALLING ALL AVG FLYING TIGERS COLLECTORS. In the meanwhile, could I humbly invite all you other experts on the AVG to display your stuff in this thread, for the sake of: A) teaching those who will follow, pay homage and appreciate the sacrifices made by a previous American generation & B)protecting the liquidity & demand value of your AVG set by allowing a larger market of people to have full information about your collection of unique valour by easy online reference--one day when we leave the departure lounge our kids will be able to easily sell for a handsome price these long-kept pieces because of the exposure and managed constant demand & interest we do now--by way of proper recording in this herein USMIlitariaforum.

And so, thank you for allowing me to send ya'll this humble invite, please.

Goodnight & Saludos, fellow collectors.

TODAY'S REPLY:

Aaaaaah mi buen estimado amigo Maestro Coleccionista Roberto,

I had you so much in mind in thread #79 topic 6 (refer above) when I was referring to a buddy of mine who owns, to me, the best Flying Tigers American Volunteer Group collection outside a museum.

Your set especially about Col. Chuck Older (then LA County, California Judge Older) is estupendo!!!

Here are my thoughts:

1) I must get myself adopted as your son, so I can inherit that fantastic set of yours;

2) You must never, never consider selling this to the Chinese once you're done enjoying your curating;

3) Hakuna Matata: let's just be happy and enjoy your curtaing of the Older Set and the display of your photos.

If anyone, like Señor Owen, should ask, I estimate your set to be in the hundreds of thousands of US$. For now let us just enjoy and allow me the liberty of posting more photos of your set in the following threads, without comment for now.

So, in summary, I've done items 1, 2, 4, & 6, with the CNAC History & Artefacts (item 5) discussion and ACE Pilot Autograph grouping (item 3) for later.

Saludos, mi buen amigo Roberto!

General Chennault's Jacket At the Smithsonian:

post-160067-0-73323500-1461861651.jpg

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josesharontraders

Owen, buddy--more about the Flying Tigers W&H Pin. There was a total of 1,000 to 2,000 Disney designed pins made by Whitehead & Hoag for the AVG guys and gals, and politicians and U.S.-based KMT (China Kuo Min Tang) officials who gave this to financial donors or to those who bought the China bonds issued by T.V. Soong, Finance Minister of China. For example, Mrs. Eleanor Roosevelt sponsored lunches with big business persons who donated to the AVG fight back in China and received these pins as a meaningful token.

 

Lookee:

post-160067-0-50553100-1461861778.jpg

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josesharontraders

Here Is the Original Backgrounder To This Now Rarest Of Pins for the American Volunteer Group Flying Tigers:

 

post-160067-0-34022200-1461862436.jpg

 

Walt Disney's Reaction to Soldiers' And The Surrounded Flying Tigers AVG's Requests for Disney Insignia Design by early 1942:

¨How could you turn them down? They meant a lot the men who were fighting they didn't know who else to go to.¨

 

post-160067-0-73782600-1461862609.jpg

 

Some more:

 

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Disney & The Flying Tigers:

 

post-160067-0-43630300-1461862813.jpg

 

And, more of the Tiger Insignia Evolution from AVG (late '41-July '42) to CATF (China Air Task Force) with the 23rd Fighter Group (74th, 75th, & 76th Squadrons), and finally the 14th Air Force of the USAAF:

 

post-160067-0-93523800-1461862865.jpg

 

More Disney Insignia backgrounder:

 

post-160067-0-61156600-1461863053.jpg

 

Besides AVG Flying Tigers Insignia, Disney designed more than 1,200 DUI's for many other units to fill the men's hearts with an aspect of home whilst battling far away in China, Europe or in the Pacific:

 

post-160067-0-36961700-1461863214.jpg

 

For example, the post AVG, the 23rd Fighter Group (Flying Tigers):

 

post-160067-0-88076700-1461863292.jpg

 

There were a limited number of stamps from this design, minted. Does anyone have this in his collection?

 

Disney At War Original Flying Tigers AVG Design:

 

post-160067-0-86098000-1461863414.jpg

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josesharontraders
On 4/23/2016 at 3:49 PM, flyingtigerfan said:

Thanks for the kind replies. There is a diamond in the eye! As for a picture of the back I think I'll refrain - it's a one off badge and I'd like to keep it that way, it has an odd construction, the front could be reproduced but the odd back could not without seeing it. I have a bit of faker paranoia - the bush jacket that this badge was once on is in a museum now, it has what I believe are also one off shoulder strap devices - these have now been reproduced since it has been displayed. These days it seems just about anything is game for the fakers.

-Rob

Hi All you AVG Flying Tigers, CATF/14th AAF/CBI collectors, again: thank you for posting your groupings in OUR thread. Feel free to continue for posterity and for easy reference and market valuation down the road.

 

So now onto Roberto's super rare stuff a la collage (even though some have been featured in other threads, just for completeness):

post-160067-0-85159200-1461863804.jpg

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post-160067-0-70718900-1461864213.jpg

post-160067-0-95831800-1461864239.jpg

 

Here is Roberto's Unique & Rare AVG Colonel Chuck Older groupings:

 

Wow look at the Order of the Clouds And Banner as well as the Wing Star Awards, besides the other AVG Chinese Air Force Wings, bullion, AVG Patches and two Flying Tigers W&H Pins (Big & Small). Lookee how the AVGers wore their Tiger Pins from the photos.

 

Other Chuck Older stuff, like jackets, 14th Air Force Groupings, photos, etc:

 

(I love to sing Willie Nelson's song, You were always on my mind..you were always on my mind---hahahahaha--whenever I look at your grouping, caballero Rob):

post-160067-0-66431100-1461864572.jpg

post-160067-0-07305300-1461864590.jpg

post-160067-0-27404600-1461864623.jpg

post-160067-0-77475600-1461864635.jpg

post-160067-0-31232800-1461864746.jpg

 

More of flyingtigerfan Roberto's fantastic, very valuable AVG Ace Pilot Chuck Older Grouping (including hunting in China between the battles):

 

post-160067-0-41552100-1461864937.jpg

post-160067-0-87923000-1461864960.jpg

post-160067-0-49579700-1461865022.jpg

post-160067-0-44361900-1461865035.jpg

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josesharontraders

Now my scalp has softened with this hobby, can have a drink and pass out in the Middle East. Goodnight, have a good weekend, fellow collectors.

 

(Please keep posting more of your AVG, CBI, CATF, 23rd Fighter Group, 14th AF stuff in our thread.)

 

jose

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