E-bay Strikes Again

[Will]

Not to mention theft.

 

The Freedoms Foundation at Valley Forge solicited donations of the Medal of Honor for years. Back in 1987, three of them were stolen, two from the Civil War and a 1914 award to a Marine. As I recall, it was several days before anyone noticed the theft.

[doyler]

One guy here I know said ebay hires off site people to monitor auctions...Im sceptical.He said he "knew the person".Anyone confirm this? Do they or have they hired people to look for banned items?

 

As stated Im not buying the story.

[jmd62]

 

I think the difference is that the museum received the items free-of-charge. When items are given to a museum, the only entity that comes out ahead is the museum. Which, if that's what the donor wants, is absolutely fine. However, I think many people consider "donating to a museum" will mean the item will be displayed and appreciated, which often times is not the case. It may simply be stored away and sold off to make room for other items that align more appropriately with the museum's goals. All of this is OK, but as you stated, it's important to "do your homework first".

 

I have had to describe this many times to people at various shows. They'll say something along the lines of "why are selling THAT? It belongs in a museum!". Sometimes some people do need a bit of a reality check. Not everything belongs in a museum. Museums certainly have their place, but the place for many pieces of vintage militaria is certainly not in a museum.

 

In fact, I feel that private collectors have done a TON for re-telling the stories of veterans in a way that most museums could never accomplish. Also, many websites that show off the items in someone's personal collection are insanely education. Some collector's "virtual museums" are great places to learn about militaria, military history, etc.

 

Perfectly said, my thoughts exactly!

 

When it comes to my humble WWII collection, I feel that I've been able to share my items more on forums and with family/friends, than a museum could've done archiving them. ( I doubt they would make "front stage" at a museum ;D ) Those I've shared items with are truly interested for one reason or another, not just passing eyes. I'm all in favor of museums, of course, but not for everything as some suggest. I like the idea of pieces of our American heritage being spread out among the people, not all gathered up in a few locations.

 

[12A54]

There's not an endless amount of space in any museum and 90% (or more) of the militaria on eBay would never find a place on display in any of them. The subject of this post involves pretty common decorations and the fact that eBay illogically bans any trade in them. And the museum discussion was initiated in the context of uninformed people incorrectly believing that those fairly common medals should be "in a museum" and not in private (collector) hands. The truth is that museums have bins filled with medals because they'll never display more that a few examples. I was recently in the storage area of a military museum and they had drawers that were segmented into small squares and there were hundreds of medals in several drawers like that. (And everything from DSCs and Navy Crosses to campaign and service medals.) The truth is that banning sales blocks families who truly want to sell stuff they no longer want and collectors who seek to preserve them. And it doesn't stop them - they just seek other channels.

[Thor996]

kat, Please don't get me wrong> I love museums, and live near one of the largest historic warship museums in the world: Battleship Cove. They have a WONDERFUL donated PT exhibit FULL of stuff that was donated by members of the PT squadrons and their families and anybody on this forum whose been there and has seen that can attest to what I am saying- and ya can climb all over the ships, in the guns, on the deck, down into the very bowels of the ship-fantastic place man.

 

MY THING IS: when i see guys like Brad Meltzer and his show on how all this history belongs to 'ALL of us' and it all belongs in a museum, and I hear other non collectors aping this line, I have to scratch my head and say 'WHY'?

 

one episode in particular regarding Hitlers' looted photo album comes to mind: HOW is that book which a soldier looted during the war [or liberated if you prefer] the property of 'all of us' and WHY should it be in a museum? I have 'liberated' Nazi, Japanese, Iraqi and other stuff in my collection: should all our groupings be taken from us because this or that is 'historically significant'?

[manayunkman]

If my brother in law, West Point and Colonel, had his way no one but families and museums would have military.

 

He finds it scandalous that these things fall into the hands of collectors for money.

 

I thought this thread was about eBay ?

[doyler]

This is a good conversation.I love museums and I love to collect.Collectors and museums will both sell items or trade as well to get things more suited for the mission of the museum or the focus of the collector.

 

I have no issue with museums selling item as I have seen and heard horror stories of things being thrown away or or disposed of through deaccession.Selling an item if done properly through the guide lines and policies of said museum benifits al1.The museum gets much needed cash for up keep and programs,utility bills,salaries etc.These places dont run free and money donations or grants can be slow or not at all.

 

The dark side of it is some have made a nice second living off of stealing from museums and selling on the side.The museum doesnt see the income from the sale of items.

[cutiger83]

There will always be issues with e-bay.
There will always be “e-bay police” watching sales.
There will always be people complaining about e-bay (just do a search on the forum).
There will always be people who don’t like collectors.
There will always be people who don’t like museums.

 

However, on the flip side….

 

There will always be deals found on e-bay.
There will always be items for sale on the forum or at shows such as SOS.
There will always be people who don’t complain about e-bay and just enjoy finding deals
There will always be people who like collectors (look at how many items are bought from families).
There will always be people who like museums.

 

E-bay is not perfect. All museums are not perfect. All collectors are not perfect. All forum members are not perfect.The world is not perfect.

 

Life is too short to sit around and complain about everyone and everything.

[12A54]

Yeah, let's stop discussing these things and posting our opinions and perspectives. Life's too short for interacting with fellow enthusiasts on a forum dedicated to that.

[Too Much WW1 Militaria]

I agree with both above! Besides, hasn't this horse been beaten to death on here before?

[tarbridge]

If Militaria and it's collecting associations were made a crime...I just would have to do the time.

[Schofield1943]

one episode in particular regarding Hitlers' looted photo album comes to mind: HOW is that book which a soldier looted during the war [or liberated if you prefer] the property of 'all of us' and WHY should it be in a museum? I have 'liberated' Nazi, Japanese, Iraqi and other stuff in my collection: should all our groupings be taken from us because this or that is 'historically significant'?

 

I'm not in disagreement here but I figured I could at least play devil's advocate since we spent a lot of time discussing "historical significance" in graduate school (I went for Historic Preservation). Firstly I should state that I believe in the relevance and importance of both museums and private collections. The two are, in a large part, dependent on each other.

 

But...I wouldn't lump Hitler's personal photo album in with some more random liberated Nazi or Japanese items. The first test would be significance... most people would argue that Hitler's photo album is far more significant than some pistols or flags or caps taken as trophies. Mostly because those latter items are common, even if specifically tied to the vet who acquired them. Hitler's photo album is a 1 of 1 (at least in reference to the Brad Meltzer episode...I'm sure Hitler had many photo albums). But the argument would be something on that level would belong in a place where all of us who are interested may have a chance to look at and learn from it...as opposed to the one lucky person who was in the right place at the right time or the really well funded person who buys it quietly and keeps it behind three steel doors.

 

Of course the flip side one could argue is that that photo album is not that significant because Hitler likely had numerous photo albums... and then putting those in order of importance can become highly subjective depending on ones preferences. And where's the line... just Hitler's stuff? Goering? Very subjective.

 

But I can't tell you how many hours we spent arguing over the word 'significant'.

[Thor996]

 

I'm not in disagreement here but I figured I could at least play devil's advocate since we spent a lot of time discussing "historical significance" in graduate school (I went for Historic Preservation). Firstly I should state that I believe in the relevance and importance of both museums and private collections. The two are, in a large part, dependent on each other.

 

But...I wouldn't lump Hitler's personal photo album in with some more random liberated Nazi or Japanese items. The first test would be significance... most people would argue that Hitler's photo album is far more significant than some pistols or flags or caps taken as trophies. Mostly because those latter items are common, even if specifically tied to the vet who acquired them. Hitler's photo album is a 1 of 1 (at least in reference to the Brad Meltzer episode...I'm sure Hitler had many photo albums). But the argument would be something on that level would belong in a place where all of us who are interested may have a chance to look at and learn from it...as opposed to the one lucky person who was in the right place at the right time or the really well funded person who buys it quietly and keeps it behind three steel doors.

 

Of course the flip side one could argue is that that photo album is not that significant because Hitler likely had numerous photo albums... and then putting those in order of importance can become highly subjective depending on ones preferences. And where's the line... just Hitler's stuff? Goering? Very subjective.

 

But I can't tell you how many hours we spent arguing over the word 'significant'.

 

thank you for playing devils advocate: In part I agree too, my argument/concern is it starts with the Camel's nose under the tent..... first they come for the 'significant'.........

[Schofield1943]

 

thank you for playing devils advocate: In part I agree too, my argument/concern is it starts with the Camel's nose under the tent..... first they come for the 'significant'.........

 

That's true... here in NYC most of the 'significance' questions revolve around individual city landmarks. Which in the vast majority of cases are privately owned buildings that the city (or we as society) have deemed 'historically significant' and have enacted laws that have been reaffirmed by the courts that allow 'us' to claim the facade of the building as 'ours' as a 'community' and prohibit any changes/alterations/demolitions to the building... even if it's privately owned. To the endless frustration of many.

 

People have tried to extend those laws to privately owned historic houses that sit on private property that no one can see and have run into problems because of that...no one can see them. The basis of the landmarks law is that facades of buildings are generally public in nature because anyone can see them when they walk down the street, regardless of who they are. Whereas a house no one can see cannot be enjoyed by the general public in the same manner and therefore not subject to the same protective laws. I imagine/hope the same standard would apply to private collections if it really ever got to that.

[manayunkman]

What is amazing is that the Hitler photo album has disappeared.

 

The person who has it has kept their mouth shut.

 

"Public Domain"

 

If collecting militaria is wrong I don't want to be right.

[Thor996]

 

If collecting militaria is wrong I don't want to be right.

 

AMEN to that!

[Brig]

Round and round this conversation does

 

At the end of the day, it's the owner's stuff, and they can do what they want with it. We don't have to agree with it, we don't have to like it, but that's the way it goes in a free nation

[Wharfmaster]

You could argue this forum is a museum. Members here that share some very interesting and rare stuff almost every day.

 

Not to mention the collector knowledge and brain power. Always learning something new and helping others to learn too.

 

 

Wharf

[dave peifer]

also i think it should be mentioned that a fair amount of reproductions and out right fakes are displayed in many museums.........dave

[cutiger83]

also i think it should be mentioned that a fair amount of reproductions and out right fakes are displayed in many museums.........dave

 

And there are also a fair amount of reproductions and out right fakes displayed in collector's items.

 

As Brig said, this is just going around and around....

[36-tex]

I have worked in a few museums over the years and have spent hours volunteering in others. I can state for a fact that the museums I am connected to only accept donations and no longer take things on loan. Museums end up getting items that are 98% of the time common and not usable for display. We would trade with other museums and sell items to raise funds to acquire pieces we wanted in the museum. As a curator I did not want to display items you could see in every other museum. I wanted pieces that were more one of a kind AND of local interest.

 

Now, will I donate my collection to a museum; No. It will either be sold off before I depart this world or my son will get it to do with as he pleases.

[Kurt Barickman]

Getting back to the original topic, selling some things on Ebay right now and had a great bunch of Wolf Brown ribbons pulled after a day; Silver Star, Legion of Merit, etc. I will be listing them on the Forum soon.

 

Kurt

[mywifesays-ohno-morestuff]

I personally have had an auction for a piece of US militaria pulled because it was not "modified" to the guidelines or rules. I was told I could do the necessary modifications myself and re-list it. After studying other similar items, and making the corrections. the item was pulled AGAIN. When I contacted e-bay to inquire I was told that because it was NOT done at the factory but by me. I could NOT list it. I had the name, date, and time of my first conversation written down as evidence, no matter, it would not be listed. I then asked how other of the same items were being allowed with obvious non-original modifications were being sold, I was told...QUOTE..."you don't need to be studying other auctions to gain information" Mind you, I am NOT a confrontational person and always try to be plain spoken and articulate when on the phone but, I had a flash that doesn't happen often! I told the person that as a CUSTOMER, I could look at anything on the site that I wanted to, and DID NOT appreciate being told what I should or should not look at. I remained courteous, even though I was simmering. I didn't want to cause myself any problems, after all, it is a vehicle to buy and sell, and most all of the time I generally have good luck there. I sold the item at a show at a later date for a fair bit less than what I could have on e-bay but in the end it all worked out.

[Thor996]

A portrait tinnie of Adolf HItler removed because the portrait is offensive, but stamps and coins and multiple other items are ok to sell.............

 

 

"The pin that you listed is of, or affiliated with, a Nazi Leader. eBay does not allow items that were owned by or affiliated with, any of the following Nazi leaders:

-Martin Bormann, Reinhard Heydrich, Alfred Rosenberg, Heinrich Himmler, Wilhelm Bodewin, Johann Gustav Keitel, Hermann Göring (also Goering), Rudolf Hess, Joseph Goebbels, Julius Streicher, or Adolf Hitler.

?Affiliated with? means items that are directly associated with the person. This can include (but is not limited to) objects like photographs, paintings, action figures, flags, sculptures, pins, books authored by the person, etc".

[FFZFlyer]

Today, Feb 23, 2016, as of 1030 hrs, PST, there are at least 5 Purple Hearts on e-bay, some stand alone, some as groups. Almost all of them have bids registered. Wonder how long these will last?